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In 1972, my tuition at the University of Oklahoma was $25 per credit hour. I was making $2.50 an hour at 20-hour part-time job, and it took me only half the semester to pay off my tuition. Last time I checked a couple of years ago, tuition at the same college is $400 per credit hour. A student would have to be making $40 an hour today to do as well...but let's not forget all other college costs have gone up higher than wages as well.
Let is go with "all" applies as you claimed. Why is that? Do you know why, or you just want to demonize universities? Find the why so people know how best to fight the problem if it exists in ALL universities.
Let is go with "all" applies as you claimed. Why is that? Do you know why, or you just want to demonize universities? Find the why so people know how best to fight the problem if it exists in ALL universities.
You have a great day.
elamigo
Are you claiming there is a college somewhere in the US that rates have not risen far ahead of inflation over the last generation? If so, let us know which one that is.
That college tuitions have risen far above inflation is not new information, and it's not a rare occurrence, it's epidemic. It's not even a point worth pausing to debate.
This was back when college/universities were the exclusive domain of the rich and wealthy. You went to college to enhance your knowledge of Greek, Latin, the Classics, Philosophy etc. Outside of studying medicine or law, college was almost entirely about learning "stuff" and not really about using it to get a specific job or into a specific career. They went into college already knowing what their career path was because well-to-do daddy was going to bring them into the lucrative family business. College was so that you could fit in with the elites.
Yes.
Quote:
Nowadays, college is more vocational in nature. STEM degrees can obviously pay huge dividends, but that's the realm of the working class and middle class: get a degree so I can get a job that pays well with great benefits.
There is a huge question of whether that is objectively true, or has been made unnecessarily true by industries who profit from it.
Sometime during 60s, it became an idea that a bachelor's degree was necessary for a white collar job, then at some point during the 70s it became zeitgeist that anything less than a bachelor's degree (any bachelor's degree) was a booby prize.
But that was not truth. Through those decades, less than 25% of people ever got a bachelor's degree, but still got jobs that eventually paid middle-class wages.
But since then, government, the banking industry, and what's turning out to be a "Human Resources" industry have turned a bachelor's degree into a false necessity.
Even today, only about 30-40% of kids will get a bachelor's degree, and frankly, they shouldn't need one. What they do need is robust technology training. They need a high school curriculum that will prepare them for robust technology training...but they don't get that because the majority of high schools are focused on nothing but college prep curriculums.
This thread has so far been about the cost of college, but the real scam here is the government and industry propagating the scam that a bachelor's degree is an absolute necessity, such that kids must go into tens of thousands of dollars of debt (to the great profit of the banks) if that's what it takes to get that degree.
Back in the 70s, the US Navy was putting hundreds of high school graduates through programming school, because, frankly, coding is a trade, not a profession. Now, management is a profession, and if a coder seeks to enter the management route, then he can get that degree. But the requirement for a bachelor's degree as an entry to programming is an example of exploitation for the enrichment of banks.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 02-01-2022 at 09:45 AM..
To a large extent you are correct. This has been the case since I graduated with a college degree more than 50 years ago. Back then there were statistics that showed a college graduate earned about a million dollars more during their lifetime. The number today is $2.3 million. So there is a factual basis and an economic one that makes a degree advantageous.
When I was in high school, if a person did well academically it was expected by parents, teachers and the student that they would go to college. That is still the case. During my working years a lot of middle class parents without degrees who could afford to do so sent their kids to college as a way to try to let them have an easier life than they did. A lot of those kids became accountants, lawyers, doctors, bankers, managers, etc. This was an American dream for the middle class.
Many have pointed out that there always were and still are ways to get a degree on a shoestring by living at home and commuting, working, attending public junior college or public state schools, etc. I got my BA commuting to a state school and my MBA in my thirties while working full time, paid for by my company's tuition reimbursement program.
When my three kids were of college age I didn't have a nest egg to send them to college. I was still driving junker used cars, was paying a mortgage and never saw financial daylight until my early 50's. I made them the same deal my mother made me thirty years earlier. Commute to a public college and I'll pay your first semester tuition. After that you are on your own with work and student loans. While my student loans only amounted to a couple of thousand, their loans amounted to $20-$30K each, but certainly something they could pay off without a big problem.
Would I like to see the government subsidize public colleges more, sure. But if they don't, it will still be OK. People think that a college degree will be a magic wand, but it never was. It is just a small piece of the puzzle when it comes to getting a good job, and it may take years of effort, with or without the college degree, for that to happen. But in the long run, it has paid off for most. I graduated in 1968. It took seven years of work to actually work my way up to a job that required a college degree. But over a lifetime of work, the degree and my own hard work paid off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Yes.
There is a huge question of whether that is objectively true, or has been made unnecessarily true by industries who profit from it.
Sometime during 60s, it became an idea that a bachelor's degree was necessary for a white collar job, then at some point during the 70s it became zeitgeist that anything less than a bachelor's degree (any bachelor's degree) was a booby prize.
But that was not truth. Through those decades, less than 25% of people ever got a bachelor's degree, but still got jobs that eventually paid middle-class wages.
But since then, government, the banking industry, and what's turning out to be a "Human Resources" industry have turned a bachelor's degree into a false necessity.
Even today, only about 30-40% of kids will get a bachelor's degree, and frankly, they shouldn't need one. What they do need is robust technology training. They need a high school curriculum that will prepare them for robust technology training...but they don't get that because the majority of high schools are focused on nothing but college prep curriculums.
This thread has so far been about the cost of college, but the real scam here is the government and industry propagating the scam that a bachelor's degree is an absolute necessity, such that kids must go into tens of thousands of dollars of debt (to the great profit of the banks) if that's what it takes to get that degree.
Back in the 70s, the US Navy was putting hundreds of high school graduates through programming school, because, frankly, coding is a trade, not a profession. Now, management is a profession, and if a coder seeks to enter the management route, then he can get that degree. But the requirement for a bachelor's degree as an entry to programming is an example of exploitation for the enrichment of banks.
I hire a lot of people right out of college. Nearly everyone one I have hired in my industry (Mechanical Design software) are not using their degree. I have hired history majors, art majors, physics majors, social workers and many with no degree. Out of the last 30 people I have hired, only 3 have had a degree that lined up with the actual job. 5 had no degree whatsoever but interviewed well. Oddly those without degrees seem to have been promoted faster. They just have an "it" factor that the degreed kids didn't. Hard to explain. I have always found it interesting how many companies are ripping themselves off with their degree requirements for open positions. Their auto-bots are trashcanning them before they even find those diamonds. It is dumb.
Are you claiming there is a college somewhere in the US that rates have not risen far ahead of inflation over the last generation? If so, let us know which one that is.
That college tuitions have risen far above inflation is not new information, and it's not a rare occurrence, it's epidemic. It's not even a point worth pausing to debate.
So, it has risen, why? That is one question. Numbers don't lie. I get that. Why have they risen? Again, you are lumping a total number. Does this number rise the same in all universities? I do not think so. That is the time when people do some research and shop to see which university has the best price just as all of us do so when shopping any other commodity. You can stay stuck with the education has gotten so expensive mentality. My family and many other families that I know found ways to make sure our kids get their education.
Some just stay stuck on the high cost and complain, stay where they are, and give up. That is when the best rise to the occasion. Again, show me data from the least expensive and most expensive universities and then we can talk, not just give me a number of an overall statistic. That can be misleading.
I hire a lot of people right out of college. Nearly everyone one I have hired in my industry (Mechanical Design software) are not using their degree. I have hired history majors, art majors, physics majors, social workers and many with no degree. Out of the last 30 people I have hired, only 3 have had a degree that lined up with the actual job. 5 had no degree whatsoever but interviewed well. Oddly those without degrees seem to have been promoted faster. They just have an "it" factor that the degreed kids didn't. Hard to explain. I have always found it interesting how many companies are ripping themselves off with their degree requirements for open positions. Their auto-bots are trashcanning them before they even find those diamonds. It is dumb.
You hit a good point. Why it happens? My guess, I admit it is a guess, is that many young kids go to college because they are expected by families and society as the only way to success. Well, that is not necessarily the case. Some of them were best served by encouraging to instead learn a trade. There are many people without a degree that are very successful. One of my nephews started a company of his own and he is very successful. He travels all other the US getting contracts. His background? High school dropout. He is not complaining that college education is so expensive as he is paying for his son's education. He just gets it done. Some people complain, other dream, and others get up and get it done. I learned that from my dad and passed it on to my children. All got their degrees. We found ways to help them get their degrees. They responded in kind by studying.
I joined an online volunteer group that gives advice. Constantly I reply to letter from young men and women that are stressed because their parents expect them to go to college and to follow a career they do not want. Other write asking how to select a career in life. Often, many of them only choose careers they are told a lot of money without considering if they have the skills to do so, the abilities, and a strong education background. Other choose because they are cool. They do not do any research by taking a personality test, projected demand for the different careers, and expected remuneration. All those factors are important.
Lastly, people complain so much that education is so expensive. If they do good research, they can curve the high prices by many other means such as doing good research on scholarships. A while ago, I saw an article of the tons of money the states give back to the federal government because there were not enough people asking for money. The money is there, so people have to spend the time to look around, not just whine and cry that is expensive.
You have a great day.
elamigo
In 1977, when I entered the U of U my tuition was approximately $270 a semester. When my son attended the University of Utah tuition was about $4,000.00 a semester. What really got my attention was that in just one year a tuition increase of $400 per semester was approved. In other words, the increase was more than my entire tuition was!
In 1977, I was a struggling student earning just above minimum wage at a job that paid $3 per hour. Minimum wage today is $7.25. Now, virtually all employees earn more than that, but starting wages of $9 or $10 an hour are not uncommon.
Housing costs here are exorbitant. I was able to rent a place with some other students and each of us paid just $100 a month. Today, a two bedroom apartment would easily cost $1400 a month. Most students must live at home out of necessity.
College is much more expensive today than it was when I grew up even when you take inflation into account. The cost of college is a legitimate grievance that young people have.
i also attended in the late 70s. Tuition and room and board was a little under 1000 a semester!
I had a work study job and received a small amount of SS via my dad.
College now is very expensive. Of course the facilities are nicer too.
i also attended in the late 70s. Tuition and room and board was a little under 1000 a semester!
I had a work study job and received a small amount of SS via my dad.
College now is very expensive. Of course the facilities are nicer too.
I agree. They are. I was treated to a tour of my old campus after my son was admitted. New dormitories exist that are essentially private apartments with lots of space. Some of the rooms look out from ten stories high over the valley. At night, the view can be quite dramatic. Gone was the old cafeteria with minimal food choices. In its place was a buffet that always offers the kids plenty of options including vegetarian ones.The old dormitories which we shared with roommates have been knocked down. How well I remember the communal bathrooms.
Everywhere I see brand new buildings. Some undoubtedly are necessary as the campus population has grown. However, its clear looking at most of them that "economy" was not on anyone's mind when they were constructed. Literature from the university boasts about they have "state of the art facilities". The university brags that these facilities will help prepare "the leaders of the future" in our state.
Many of us are not excited. We see how all of this is pricing middle class students out of the market. The university thinks it can stop this criticism by throwing a handful of scholarships around to its most stellar students. Whenever anyone criticizes the finances of any of this the excuse that is usually given is "we have to do all this to attract the best students and professors".
Administration has grown like a weed. Special programs are now in place to address problems like "social anxiety among students". I have nothing against transgendered people. Yet, its clear university administration would rather talk about issues like these instead of keeping costs down.
Its a commuter school with most students living off campus. Yet, administration is hellbent on tearing up as many parking places as it can. Criticisms from students and student government are met with deaf ears.
Maybe I am just an old fogey at age 62. I don't see how this is working for the good of most students or the people in this state. Yet, it goes on and on.
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