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I know this might make some people's heads explode trying to figure this out, but how about we just have a single time zone for the entire world, it actually works out quite well!
GMT (a.k.a. UTC, although technically there is a minor difference in the definition) is about the closest we have, and is commonly used where boundaries become somewhat irrelevant, e.g. many shortwave broadcasters targeting audiences all around the world typically announce schedules with GMT (sometimes supplemented by the local time where appropriate).
On 12- vs. 24-hour clock use, most of Continental Europe uses the 24-hour clock for everything. In France, for example, somebody asked the time will respond with "Il est quinze heures" - It is 15 hours - for 3 p.m. The U.K. is somewhere in between America and Europe on this issue. "Fifteen hundred" might be normal in military and similar situations, but it would be considered rather odd to say that in everyday speech in response to being asked the time. But unlike the U.S., bus and train timetables have used the 24-hour clock for a long time.
I remember some years ago there was a vague proposal to introduce a decimal time, based on 10 hours (or whatever new unit might have been invented) per day, subdivided into 100 minutes (or equivalent). I think the problem with any such a proposal is that it's such a massive departure from the 24-hour day, 60-minute hour that people are used to that it would be a very hard sell.
GMT (a.k.a. UTC, although technically there is a minor difference in the definition) is about the closest we have, and is commonly used where boundaries become somewhat irrelevant, e.g. many shortwave broadcasters targeting audiences all around the world typically announce schedules with GMT (sometimes supplemented by the local time where appropriate).
On 12- vs. 24-hour clock use, most of Continental Europe uses the 24-hour clock for everything. In France, for example, somebody asked the time will respond with "Il est quinze heures" - It is 15 hours - for 3 p.m. The U.K. is somewhere in between America and Europe on this issue. "Fifteen hundred" might be normal in military and similar situations, but it would be considered rather odd to say that in everyday speech in response to being asked the time. But unlike the U.S., bus and train timetables have used the 24-hour clock for a long time.
I remember some years ago there was a vague proposal to introduce a decimal time, based on 10 hours (or whatever new unit might have been invented) per day, subdivided into 100 minutes (or equivalent). I think the problem with any such a proposal is that it's such a massive departure from the 24-hour day, 60-minute hour that people are used to that it would be a very hard sell.
Ideally, if you went to a single time zone and no AM/PM back in the 1800s, it would be second nature for us now and ingrained into our everyday lives and we would have little to no issues with the concept.
Being a scientist myself, and having to work to metric, but live in a non-metric world here in the US, it's easy for me to go back and forth, if needed. I have always been curious about the concept of time and how and when it was created by us Homo sapiens sapiens.
Obviously going to a single time zone will never happen now, but it's good to dream!
I have always been curious about the concept of time and how and when it was created by us Homo sapiens sapiens.
The same with me. Dealing with different time zones has also been with me ever since I was young - First listening to shortwave broadcasts from around the world as kid, then working as an engineer for British Telecom on international cable and satellite trunks I was always having to work out what time it was in a given place at the other end of the circuit, and whether we'd be likely to get a reply if calling a place which wasn't manned 24 hours per day, or how long we might have to wait for a telex response.
Time is a fascinating subject (for some of us anyway!).
Count me in the camp that prefers keeping year-long Standard time than Daylight Saving. The sunset is already pretty late in summers, even in a southern city like Austin. I could trade-off one hour of that for earlier sunrise times in winter. Elementary schools here start at ~7:30-7-:45AM, making DST permanent would lead to very dark winter mornings.
I'm in this camp. More sunshine in the early mornings less in the evening. Standard Time throughout the year.
I was trying to find some data about the popularity of this idea, and found the following Brittanica web site:
55% of Americans said they are not disrupted by the time change
28% report a minor disruption,
13% said the change is a major disruption.
Poll 2:
40% of Americans would prefer to stay in Standard Time all year
31% would prefer to stay in Daylight Saving Time all year, eliminating the time change.
28% of Americans would keep the time change twice a year.
These results are based on the following:
Princeton Survey Research Associates International, "Daylight Savings [sic] Time," princetondatasource.com (accessed Mar. 4, 2019)
AP and NORC, "Daylight Saving Time vs Standard Time," apnorc.org (accessed Feb. 27, 2020)
So at least according to these polls, more Americans would prefer Standard time rather than DST year round. Why did Congress pursue an option that most Americans don't favor? Most likely because quite a few commercial interests benefit from longer daylight hours. (Outdoor sports, retail sales, gas/snack sales, etc.) Dollars speak to Congress a lot more loudly that the People ever will.
There's a better way to decide this issue if the consensus is no more clock-changing: Rather than debating between "permanent standard" or "permanent daylight" time, decide which time zone (from the perspective of UTC offset) each location should be in.
For the continental United States:
UTC -4 (Eastern Daylight time)
UTC -5 (Eastern Standard/Central Daylight time)
UTC -6 (Central Standard/Mountain Daylight time)
UTC -7 (Mountain Standard/Pacific Daylight time)
UTC -8 (Pacific Standard time)
The majority of the country would probably opt to keep their clocks on their current "summer" time (including all of the current Pacific time zone to keep all of the continental U.S. in one of four time zones), but locations in the western reaches of their current time zone (where winter sunrise could be unacceptably late by permanently keeping the clocks ahead) could opt to stay on their current "winter" time and effectively move to agree with the locations to their immediate west (instead of east in the current arrangement).
For example, locations like Indiana and Michigan that were once on Central time but moved to Eastern over the years would likely be best served with UTC -5 under an unchanging-clock scenario. Likewise with places like Arizona (currently on UTC -7 all year).
This would require some coordination between the affected states and the Department of Transportation (who oversees the time zones), but IMO let each state decide as long as there is no "reverting" along any major east-west thoroughfare.
There's a better way to decide this issue if the consensus is no more clock-changing: Rather than debating between "permanent standard" or "permanent daylight" time, decide which time zone (from the perspective of UTC offset) each location should be in.
That is effectively what the current bill is proposing. Although we've been talking casually about "permanent daylight time," the actual wording of the bill sets out the legal abolition of daylight saving as such and redefines the standard time zones so that Eastern would be UTC-4 instead of UTC-5, Central would be UTC-5 instead of UTC-6, etc.
They'd still be out of synch with their time zone for half the year.
Note:
There was a proposal during the 1970s to put the United States on one single time zone. Legislation was introduced in Congress, but it did not go anywhere.
That would be like what China does - they officially have 1 time zone known as China Standard Time or sometime Beijing Time since the communist takeover in 1949. China was 5 time zones when it was split into the standard zones - it would be like if all of the US was on Central standard time. In the far west area, much of the Uyghur population uses a "local time" that is 2 hours behind the official time.
I never thought it was much work dealing with the changes in time zones - while I was based in CA that had DST, I had projects in HI and AZ that did not change - mostly meant keeping track of meeting times when time changed.
In a sense, surely they are already separate time zones during that portion of the year when other areas have moved forward an hour? For example, most places within mountain time zone move to MDT while most of Arizona remains on MST - Aren't MST and MDT technically different time zones, even though at different times of the year they apply within the same physical areas?
If we're talking about what should happen, then personally I would prefer to see the century-long use of DST (and its equivalent in other countries) abolished completely, get rid of the ridiculous messing around with clocks twice a year, and let everywhere remain on its standard time year round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork
Thank you for observing Great Debates rules, Tusco.
Interestingly, earlier today the United States Senate unanimously approved a bill to make daylight saving time permanent and year-round throughout the United States. Called "The Sunshine Protection Act" the bill still has to be passed by the House of Representatives before going before the President to be signed into legislation. If all this occurs, then the new legislation will go into effect in November of 2023.
I, for one, would not miss the annoyance of remembering to "spring forward" or "fall back" twice a year with the time.
As much as it's an annoyance I think it's necessary, though I would make the changeovers roughly 60 days each side of the winter solstice, i.e. October and February 21, rounded to nearest weekend. I prefer DST myself, but having been a student within my memory and been the parents of students more recently (I am 65), I really don't favor it being, literally, pitch black when the children go to school. A glimmer of light at dawn is enough, but having sunrise at 8:20 a.m. is daunting.
There is obviously not much that can be done to lengthen the day itself, so best to distribute daylight in an optimal manner around the clock.
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