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What is the difference in being hetero and being pro-hetero?
I know what hetero is, but I'm not sure about pro-hetero.
I mean, I'm right-handed and I'm tall. I'm content to be both, but I wouldn't say I'm pro- either. They're traits, not beliefs or ideologies. So it is with sexual orientation.
There was actually a gay woman (saw this on the news) who said that it is homophobic to feel that Kindergarten, Grades 1 & 2 is too soon to teach children about gender identity.
Unless these people are shouted down and silenced, we as a society are doomed. But that's another story.
You want to shout people down and silence them... why, exactly? Can you explain what these discussions would entail, and how they would "doom our society?" I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking here.
Personally I think everyone has a right to speak their mind, so you rallying us to "silence" someone for having an opinion is worrying. I bet you wouldn't accept that behavior if it was YOUR opinions being shouted down.
I would have liked to have known what the daughter thought of her father's prejudice, had she fallen in love with a Black man and married him. It seems to me that your friend's response to the thought of his daughter marrying a Black man would result in a lot of hurt for his daughter -- and also for any of his grandchildren born of the marriage. I honestly think that disowning one's child and causing one's child such hurt is one of the worst things one can do. But then, I'm one of those people who believes in unconditional love for one's children.
I have known at least one person who expressed the same sentiments such as your sergeant friend did. When his own daughter actually did marry outside of her race, though, and the father took the time to get to know his son-in-law, his attitude changed. Then, when the baby came along, this man became a very proud grandfather.
I have also known at least two different sets of parents who, upon finding out that their child was gay, nevertheless accepted their child as he is.
This may sound corny, but I do believe that love can win out over hate and distrust if given half a chance. It starts with each of us letting down our barriers first, and making an effort to know the other person. We're all human beings, after all.
You are not corny, I agree with the sentiment. That does not mean that love is totally unconditional. In some cases love goes only so far. In those time, even though the decision is made, that does not mean that the person does not suffer because of not been able to love that person that he or she avoids now.
You have a great day.
elamigo
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,550 posts, read 81,103,317 times
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I have a male relative married to another male, ( I attended the wedding) and a gay in-law, and spend time with both, including overnight visits and meals together. I had a business for 16 years and in a job before that have had several lesbian employees. Whole I don't understand it, being straight myself, I don't object to anyone living their life the way they want to. My only problem is trying to push it onto others. This whole gay/trans movement has resulted in a lot of confused teens and pre-teens.
I have a male relative married to another male, ( I attended the wedding) and a gay in-law, and spend time with both, including overnight visits and meals together. I had a business for 16 years and in a job before that have had several lesbian employees. Whole I don't understand it, being straight myself, I don't object to anyone living their life the way they want to. My only problem is trying to push it onto others. This whole gay/trans movement has resulted in a lot of confused teens and pre-teens.
I don't know that they ever had to be confused. Seems pretty simple to me. Be attracted to whoever you're attracted to. If they don't reciprocate your interest, respect that. It happens to us all. Be kind, respectful, courteous and act with dignity. There is no place in public for graphic sex acts where people who didn't consent to see it may have it sprung on them by surprise. That is discourteous and disrespectful.
(But that over the top PDA isn't any more OK when straight people are doing it. People need to act right, plain and simple. I think that's the big complaint that the LGBTQ+ community has, how are you gonna accuse them of "shoving it down your throat" when straight sexuality has been blasted in everyone's face all over everywhere forever?)
The one main theme I pushed at my kids when they were teens, was to avoid doing ANYTHING that would have a permanent effect that you can't go back from. Avoid shutting doors you can't open again. If a kid questions their orientation and messes around with that but ultimately decides that nah, they are good in a straight relationship...hey that's fine. That isn't a "you can never go back" choice. With trans kids, puberty blockers are reversible...yeah, it will for sure change the way that their bodies are as they're growing up, they will have a different experience than most teens. But it is not "you can't go back." Surgery on the other hand, is. So they need to be adults, and they need to take plenty of time to make that decision. But changing one's fashion choices, that's about as transient as you get.
But like I emphasized to my kids, do not get anyone pregnant, don't get tattoos without taking at least a year to be sure that's what you want...that kind of thing. Be cautious about anything that is forever.
But if anything is messing with our kids, I don't actually think it's the people out there who are saying, "If you're gay, you know...that's fine. Straight? Gender questioning? Whatever? Cool, all good, you have time to figure that out and I love and support you regardless." No, if anything I think it's the very conflicting information that they can get from the internet. Everything from love and support to hate and poison, but beyond that there's the porn. All kinds, as twisted as ya like, and hard to keep kids from seeing it.
And I sure don't blame the gay community for the proliferation of extreme porn.
tl;dr - I worry far more about the commodification of sex and kids being exposed to extreme things on the internet, than I do letting the gay kids out of the closet, as far as anybody being "confused" or worse.
I have a male relative married to another male, ( I attended the wedding) and a gay in-law, and spend time with both, including overnight visits and meals together. I had a business for 16 years and in a job before that have had several lesbian employees. Whole I don't understand it, being straight myself, I don't object to anyone living their life the way they want to. My only problem is trying to push it onto others. This whole gay/trans movement has resulted in a lot of confused teens and pre-teens.
Why are you trying to "push" it? All you have to do is respect people life choices and you live your life as you wish. I think you feel this way because of other people are trying to impose on others. In my own words their message comes to me as if they are saying "agree with me and like my lifestyle." If you do not, you are accused of be racist, ...phobic, hateful, and on and on. THOSE that do that are the ones that are narrow minded AND hateful with their actions when they go out there and attack people for not conforming, agreeing and liking their views.
As far as the teens being confused, it is for the same reason. To me, it has the indicators of what could be a fad. They see it on the news and many around them. They are at an age when pleasing the crowd is very strong so they conform to not go against the crowd.
I give advice online and I have replied to countless letters from teens and pre-teens asking about are their orientations. They want to know. They sound so emotionally stressful not knowing what it is. My usual reply is to not worry so much about it. I tell them "if you like boys, chase boys, if you like girls chase girls, if you like both chase both. Don't worry about the label so much. I have read that there at least 50 types of orientation. Do you mean to tell me that you want to read about all of them to figure out what yours is? Just follow whatever attraction you have and get rid of all this unnecessary stress."
My father, who happened to be a Tech Sergeant in the Air Force was a bit racist. Nothing extreme, but he clearly didn't seem to like African Americans. He told me a couple of stories about negative interactions with Black soldiers, and clearly didn't see his behavior as racist...or at the very least, just plain stupid. For example, he was in charge of a mess hall at a base in Texas sometime in the mid-1950s. One day after hours he was fixing himself dinner -- a mixup of leftover sorta stir fried. A Black soldier asked him, "What ya cookin' up Sergeant?" My father answered, "[N-word] stew". Now my father may have only had a high school education, but he was surprisingly well read. He certainly knew the inappropriateness of saying that. It was racist. No excusing it. And he learned a valuable lesson since the soldier pulled a switch blade on him and he cut my father, although not badly.
Take it forward a decade later when my father was stationed at Pease AFB in New Hampshire. My aunt and uncle and I went up to visit my father...they had a camping trailer. My father asked me if I wanted to see the mess hall where he worked. A big deal for me. We got there, and this was at a time when almost all the privates working in the mess hall were Black. When my father walked in with me, the Black men all crowded around me and were VERY complimentary about my father and how good it was to work for him. And it seemed genuine. That didn't make my father not a racist, because even a subtle racist is still a racist.
What you miss, in my view, above is what I bolded. I spent 20 years as an administrator at a middle school outside of Washington, D.C. The first 13 years I was a vice principal. Not the one that made the hiring decisions, but always part of the process. We had a staff of around 80, 1 of whom was Black, in a county where the African-American and Black population was about 10%. And yet our staff was about 1% Black. And what I noticed over time was that Black teacher candidates never got the job. There was always some reason they didn't get the job. And as a result, we had the whitest school staff -- by far -- out of approximately 170 schools in the system. I couldn't always predict which candidate would get the job, but I could always predict which one wouldn't. And then, after 13 years in the school we got a new principal. Me. And things changed. Our staff started looking more like our student population.
Racism doesn't always have to overt.
I do not agree with your example you used to refute my statement. Your example comes across as if said there is no discrimination. That attitude exist in ALL walks of life whether it is against blacks, women, WHITES, and other groups. Actually, I have seen blacks of lighter skin discriminate black of darker skins. I have seen blacks that flat out discriminate against whites. Have you read about blacks that do not allow white couples to adopt black children? They rather see a black child live in a foster home than with a loving white couple. I am of Latino background born in the US but raised in Mexico. I have experienced discrimination from Latinos. My wife who looks Caucasian because she has British and Mexican background and has been discriminated by many Mexicans in our area. Often, they speak Spanish to her thinking she can't speak it. Their jaws drop when she answers to them in Spanish with no English accents because she was raised by her grandmother that was from Mexico. All groups have their bad apples. Also, in the example you SEEM to support the affirmative action program. I do not know for sure if you do though; I don't agree with it. Having 1% blacks of a community of 10% blacks does not necessarily means that it bad discrimination. For me to agree with you based on these stats I would have to take a close look at all the cases to see if bad discrimination was happening. However, I am not making a categorical statement that racial did not exist in your work place. I did not work in the same environment to agree or disagree with you. I disagreed with your example because of what looks as fallacious approach on your part.
I do not know the name of the logic fallacy you used by citing this example. The fallacy means that you used one example to prove your point on my statement that cover a general situation with no specifics for me to agree or disagree.
You have a great day.
elamigo
I don't know that they ever had to be confused. Seems pretty simple to me. Be attracted to whoever you're attracted to. If they don't reciprocate your interest, respect that. It happens to us all. Be kind, respectful, courteous and act with dignity. There is no place in public for graphic sex acts where people who didn't consent to see it may have it sprung on them by surprise. That is discourteous and disrespectful.
(But that over the top PDA isn't any more OK when straight people are doing it. People need to act right, plain and simple. I think that's the big complaint that the LGBTQ+ community has, how are you gonna accuse them of "shoving it down your throat" when straight sexuality has been blasted in everyone's face all over everywhere forever?)
The one main theme I pushed at my kids when they were teens, was to avoid doing ANYTHING that would have a permanent effect that you can't go back from. Avoid shutting doors you can't open again. If a kid questions their orientation and messes around with that but ultimately decides that nah, they are good in a straight relationship...hey that's fine. That isn't a "you can never go back" choice. With trans kids, puberty blockers are reversible...yeah, it will for sure change the way that their bodies are as they're growing up, they will have a different experience than most teens. But it is not "you can't go back." Surgery on the other hand, is. So they need to be adults, and they need to take plenty of time to make that decision. But changing one's fashion choices, that's about as transient as you get.
But like I emphasized to my kids, do not get anyone pregnant, don't get tattoos without taking at least a year to be sure that's what you want...that kind of thing. Be cautious about anything that is forever.
But if anything is messing with our kids, I don't actually think it's the people out there who are saying, "If you're gay, you know...that's fine. Straight? Gender questioning? Whatever? Cool, all good, you have time to figure that out and I love and support you regardless." No, if anything I think it's the very conflicting information that they can get from the internet. Everything from love and support to hate and poison, but beyond that there's the porn. All kinds, as twisted as ya like, and hard to keep kids from seeing it.
And I sure don't blame the gay community for the proliferation of extreme porn.
tl;dr - I worry far more about the commodification of sex and kids being exposed to extreme things on the internet, than I do letting the gay kids out of the closet, as far as anybody being "confused" or worse.
Great post. I see a lot of uproar about kids coming out in middle school and wanting to go by new names. The way I see it, these kids aren’t doing anything that can’t be reversed. It seems preferable to me to start by changing your name and making superficial changes to your appearance by wearing different clothes, cutting your hear a different way, etc than to launch right in with hormone blockers and surgical intervention. If a child wants to start wearing dresses and skirts, shaving their legs, putting on makeup, and letting their hair grow long, it’s not like they can’t wake up a year down the road and decide they’ve had enough. I would certainly expect a kid to try these minor changes for a set period of time before moving onto the next step of hormone blockers. On the other hand, there are some kids who are pretty evident in the get go that their biological sex doesn’t fit them, in which case hormone blockers could be appropriate.
Great post. I see a lot of uproar about kids coming out in middle school and wanting to go by new names. The way I see it, these kids aren’t doing anything that can’t be reversed. It seems preferable to me to start by changing your name and making superficial changes to your appearance by wearing different clothes, cutting your hear a different way, etc than to launch right in with hormone blockers and surgical intervention. If a child wants to start wearing dresses and skirts, shaving their legs, putting on makeup, and letting their hair grow long, it’s not like they can’t wake up a year down the road and decide they’ve had enough. I would certainly expect a kid to try these minor changes for a set period of time before moving onto the next step of hormone blockers. On the other hand, there are some kids who are pretty evident in the get go that their biological sex doesn’t fit them, in which case hormone blockers could be appropriate.
I have a few close friends who are all on the LGBTQ spectrum and all of them say that they knew that they were "different" at a young age, and it would have been so wonderful in their youth for them to be able to see and talk about their differences without having to hide and feel ashamed and try to fit in when it felt wrong. It's not the access to information that is making these kids explore their identities--it's already there.
Great post. I see a lot of uproar about kids coming out in middle school and wanting to go by new names. The way I see it, these kids aren’t doing anything that can’t be reversed. It seems preferable to me to start by changing your name and making superficial changes to your appearance by wearing different clothes, cutting your hear a different way, etc than to launch right in with hormone blockers and surgical intervention. If a child wants to start wearing dresses and skirts, shaving their legs, putting on makeup, and letting their hair grow long, it’s not like they can’t wake up a year down the road and decide they’ve had enough. I would certainly expect a kid to try these minor changes for a set period of time before moving onto the next step of hormone blockers. On the other hand, there are some kids who are pretty evident in the get go that their biological sex doesn’t fit them, in which case hormone blockers could be appropriate.
What I often note with dismay in many of these conversations is that people hear some outrage stirring report about over the top things happening (things that would upset anyone!) and don't take the time to dig in to other sources and perspectives to find the facts.
And the thing is, especially when it comes to medical procedures, you won't get the facts from those protesting whatever it is...you will get them if you go research with providers who do it, as though you were looking to get that treatment yourself. THEN you would see how it's really done and what is really available and how it actually works.
But a lot of folks are so attached to their team sports bias approach to things, they don't want facts. They want to be upset and fight. I see it everywhere. And it's been one of the most commonly used kinds of propaganda throughout human history all over the world, to claim that there are threats to children, to stir anger and outrage.
So yeah, trans youth. Personally I am on the fence about puberty blockers. Mind you, this is NOT the same as hormone replacement therapy. Very, very important. Puberty blockers have been around a long, long time and were originally developed for use to halt "precocious puberty" mainly in girls. So in other words, some family noticed that their 9 year old girl was developing giant boobs and got very concerned about what could happen if they let her out of the house into a world with men in it, so they gave her drugs to halt her premature puberty. That's the history. But in recent decades they discovered that this can be used for trans youth to basically keep them from developing full on secondary sex characteristics, until, say, later in their teens.
As soon as a kid stops taking the blockers? Puberty happens. As normal, just delayed.
Now how long can one suspend a kid in a child-like physical state safely? I don't know that. How harmful could it be socially for a kid to be going to high school and looking significantly younger than they are? Yeah, that's complicated. I won't lie to you, I have a lot of concerned and uncertain feelings about medical interventions of any kind being done on underage trans people.
But I also have a kid who identifies as trans, though it's complicated. He (because he still is not ready to change pronouns or name, and yes I ask from time to time and encourage him to just let me know)...he told me years ago. But he's got a lot of other mental health stuff going on, and our home life was intensely stressful and hard because of his Dad. I wondered if he had found an online community and was just drawn to the feelings of being supported and cared about. Not a bad thing, if so... But I was also terrified of the discrimination and possibly even violence he might face as a trans person. I did not think he knew, how bad it could be out there. It's scary. So yeah, I told him that if he wanted to try makeup, change fashion, hairstyles, anything that was not medical or permanent...I was totally supportive. But that he needed to wait until he was a self supporting adult person, to pursue any of the medical stuff if he still wanted to at that point. And he has played around with his style at times, but hasn't shown a big dedication to it.
I've also talked to him about how there are many options, that he could be one of various flavors of non-binary, that I love and support him regardless. Honestly I would feel a lot less afraid if it were just a matter of wanting to present as a woman sometimes...but it is not up to me. The medical stuff scares me. And he wants to have kids one day. I mean... yanno? But at the end of the day, I love whatever kind of person my kid is or becomes. I just want him to be SURE. For it to come from a healthy and genuine place.
So yeah, fear is a big thing in all of this...not so much "transphobia" for me but fear of my kid suffering, even more than he already does, or coming to harm. The impulse to wish that one could wrap one's child in a protective layer of love and let nothing threaten them ever...it's not a thing that listens to logic or reason or rational arguments sometimes. And sometimes it causes conflicts with other beliefs and thought processes that exist in my mind alongside it. Being a parent is certainly the hardest thing I've ever done or probably ever will do, for so many reasons and in so many ways...
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