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Of course not. I wouldn't take a work from home job and there are dozens of us who feel the same! The office is a break from my life, and my life is a break from the office. Too much of either wouldn't be good for me. I enjoy the camaraderie and engaging with people I probably wouldn't otherwise engage with.
But do you really need to be in the office for all of the typical 5 day 40 hour work week? Could you work from home at least one day a week?
For me, going into the office a few days per week is enough, and many meetings can be held just as well on Teams or Zoom. It's mostly classified work that drives me to go in.
I agree that sometimes we need the in-person interaction, but while remote work does not provide for quite as good a level of interaction, it can be 90% as good for less than 10% of the cost.
I for one have participated in remote training "webinars" where it would be difficult to justify travel costs for me to attend in person, again about 90% of the benefit for 10% of the cost.
In March 2020, we were all asked to make huge changes to our lives in a short period of time, with the promise that some day, we will have a vaccine and be able to get back to normal.
We were notably NOT told that the plan was to have permanent hybrid or remote work. The discussion was being presented as being about Covid and Covid alone.
To now say that one should not go back to the office fulltime would thus be a bait-and switch (aka swindling.)
If the powers that be want us to work remotely all or part of the time, that should have been disclosed in March 2020.
Put another way, I am not required to "justify" why I go to work five days per week. I will do it, and if you think I am doing something wrong, you must convince me to change. If you are unable to come up with a cogent argument that is not based on false promises or swindling, then I will continue to go to work full-time.
In March 2020, we were all asked to make huge changes to our lives in a short period of time, with the promise that some day, we will have a vaccine and be able to get back to normal.
We were notably NOT told that the plan was to have permanent hybrid or remote work. The discussion was being presented as being about Covid and Covid alone.
To now say that one should not go back to the office fulltime would thus be a bait-and switch (aka swindling.)
If the powers that be want us to work remotely all or part of the time, that should have been disclosed in March 2020.
Put another way, I am not required to "justify" why I go to work five days per week. I will do it, and if you think I am doing something wrong, you must convince me to change. If you are unable to come up with a cogent argument that is not based on false promises or swindling, then I will continue to go to work full-time.
I could not agree more. The initial "two weeks to flatten the curve" was a fraud. The organizers, see The Premonition: A Pandemic Story by Michael Lewis, which was on the N.Y. Times Bestseller list for a while during Spring 2020. The author implicitly said that we should have performed non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPI's) (link) as the primary focus.When I say "implicitly" he faults the CDC for not utilizing NPIs in threatened pandemics as early as swine flu (1976) on including the 2003 SARS and 2009 H1N1. NPIs are essentially lockdowns; closures of schools, businesses, places of assembly, mandating social distancing and restricting travel. The problem is obvious; society cannot function for lengthy periods or frequently in lockdown. Nowhere was the educational or social cost of the remedy discussed.
The lockdowns were to be the prelude to UBI, or Uniform Basic Income. Another great summary is contained in The War on Work by Barton Swaim. Excerpt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barton Swaim
But to the writers and readers of fashionable liberal opinion, the decline of America’s work ethic is a reason for chirpy optimism. The New York Times, in a perhaps unconscious effort to discover evidence that the onerous pandemic restrictions the paper championed weren’t the disaster they plainly were, has published a series of pieces on how the pandemic changed our “approach to work.” One article claimed many people quit their jobs for better-paying ones; another told stories of workers quitting their jobs to find a better “work-life balance”; another documented the ways in which quitting encouraged healthy and liberating expressions of workers’ grievances. Still another documented the experience of a nonprofit executive who resigned from her job and “reconnected” with her family. Not working is wonderful!
This is a "Peter Pan" mentality; "I don't want to grow up."
As long as there's a tight labor market, which it's reasonable to assume there will be for some time with current immigration stances and baby boomers retirement schedules, there will be a drive towards remote work for jobs where it is minimally impacting. Education won't be remotized, but webexers like myself will be. Where employers can't find many applicants or the qualified ones request remote, they will cave to fill positions. Easier to flex on that than bump up the salary till you can poach / find a local commute candidate.
In many ways, it has to do with the geography of jobs and housing. There's a huge mismatch between where the jobs, or at least the HQs are, and where the housing is across the nation. See this article to get a grasp on how many houses major metros would have to build to match the job centers. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...cities/672184/
There's 2 ways this gets resolved: 1. Jobs migrate to where the housing is 2. Housing is built where the jobs are. There's a fat chance in hell that major metros actually ramp up new housing, so remote work migrating jobs is the answer we're left with.
And it doesn't matter what you did or didn't sign up to with COVID. The world's changed so profoundly with this 2 year alternate model, there's no going back. You may or may not like going into the office, that's your choice, but demanding that your coworkers show up as well is just as imposing as the remote ones telling you to stay home.
As long as there's a tight labor market, which it's reasonable to assume there will be for some time with current immigration stances and baby boomers retirement schedules, there will be a drive towards remote work for jobs where it is minimally impacting. Education won't be remotized, but webexers like myself will be. Where employers can't find many applicants or the qualified ones request remote, they will cave to fill positions. Easier to flex on that than bump up the salary till you can poach / find a local commute candidate.
In many ways, it has to do with the geography of jobs and housing. There's a huge mismatch between where the jobs, or at least the HQs are, and where the housing is across the nation. See this article to get a grasp on how many houses major metros would have to build to match the job centers. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...cities/672184/
There's 2 ways this gets resolved: 1. Jobs migrate to where the housing is 2. Housing is built where the jobs are. There's a fat chance in hell that major metros actually ramp up new housing, so remote work migrating jobs is the answer we're left with.
And it doesn't matter what you did or didn't sign up to with COVID. The world's changed so profoundly with this 2 year alternate model, there's no going back. You may or may not like going into the office, that's your choice, but demanding that your coworkers show up as well is just as imposing as the remote ones telling you to stay home.
Nowhere in any thread did I ever say I wanted to demand that remote-preferring workers show up full-time. I am only pushing back on the trend for employers to force or pressure employees to accept remote work, when said employees did not take a job that was disclosed to be remote or hybrid.
This IS a thing now. For instance, one of my friends works at a job where they are told to work remotely every time there is a spike in Covid cases (and yes, this has happened as recently as a few months ago, during the BA.5 wave!). Another example, at my previous job, the pre-covid policy was that if you were unable to safely report to work due to weather, you would automatically be allowed to take leave, no questions asked. But since Covid a lot of bosses try to pressure employees to work from home during a weather emergency, even though the company policy says that telework is optional, but managers are not honoring this unless an employee actually points out the inconsistency and pushes back. A third example is my current company, which tried to force me to work remotely my first two days because I was delayed in getting building access. Pre-pandemic, they would have simply let me delay my start date.
So the apologists for forced remote work want to insist that forced remote work is not a widespread problem and thus dismiss these complaints. But I know that in the post-Covid era, forced remote work (or at least pressure to be willing to WFH) is a very real thing and represents a broken promise to return to normal after the virus is under control.
My wife is actually looking for a job right now (NYC tri state area). Remote jobs are very rare, hybrid or full time in the office are much more prevalent. I think eventually once the current Covid surge is over in Spring, most jobs will be either hybrid or in office full time. Which I think is the best case scenario. I believe it is very unhealthy to always work from home without interacting with other people, without dressing up and trying to be presentable. I am pretty sure that fully remote work will cause even more obesity and ultimately depression, especially for single people and people with small kids who drive them crazy.
My personal preference is hybrid, going to the office 2 - 3 days a week...
In March 2020, we were all asked to make huge changes to our lives in a short period of time, with the promise that some day, we will have a vaccine and be able to get back to normal.
We were notably NOT told that the plan was to have permanent hybrid or remote work. The discussion was being presented as being about Covid and Covid alone.
To now say that one should not go back to the office fulltime would thus be a bait-and switch (aka swindling.)
If the powers that be want us to work remotely all or part of the time, that should have been disclosed in March 2020.
Put another way, I am not required to "justify" why I go to work five days per week. I will do it, and if you think I am doing something wrong, you must convince me to change. If you are unable to come up with a cogent argument that is not based on false promises or swindling, then I will continue to go to work full-time.
I think you need a little history. It has been possible to work at home for far longer than 2020. In fact in the 2010ies I knew someone who had a hybrid schedule and people that took their laptops home with them if they knew they were going to be out for some reason(sick). The thing is prior to COVID work at home was a perk given to few employees, so fewer employees wanted it and fewer got it. Prior to COVID some tech workers were hot seating where they worked from home and came into the office to an table(not desk) that that could be shared with other workers and only were in the office part time.
What happened with COVID is that remote work got democratized. It got open to far more workers many of which find it more ideal. There are also some benefits to the employer as well(in the case of the previous hot seating the employer can use a smaller office with lower rent\upkeep costs to support the workforce). 2020 open the bottle on remote work and this genie isn't going to go back in the bottle.
You do justify going to work five days a week by what you do while you are in the office. If they think you are underworked you will get more work or your job will be changed or eliminated. The reason why you came to work everyday in the past was due to the limits of technology. Before the internet and cell phones it just was not possible to be in contact with workers or to easily submit work done after the internet slowly but surely every reason for one to come into the office save direct interaction with people was removed. Sometimes that direct interaction is useful to the employer(People sharing ideas), sometimes not(office gossip).
Quote:
This IS a thing now. For instance, one of my friends works at a job where they are told to work remotely every time there is a spike in Covid cases (and yes, this has happened as recently as a few months ago, during the BA.5 wave!).
Things like COVID and the FLU can knock a whole office out and drop productivity. This is a company attempting to prevent this problem.
Quote:
Another example, at my previous job, the pre-covid policy was that if you were unable to safely report to work due to weather, you would automatically be allowed to take leave, no questions asked. But since Covid a lot of bosses try to pressure employees to work from home during a weather emergency, even though the company policy says that telework is optional, but managers are not honoring this unless an employee actually points out the inconsistency and pushes back.
The policy was created before the technology for people to effectively work from home was created. The policy can and should be updated to reflect this reality. Now I can understand if the weather emergency creates a child care emergency(kids home from school) or personal emergency(home damage) or the emergency cuts your ability to get to the internet(Power Outage) but really what you need is more personal time off that isn't tied to weather.
Quote:
A third example is my current company, which tried to force me to work remotely my first two days because I was delayed in getting building access. Pre-pandemic, they would have simply let me delay my start date.
What kind of company is unable to give building access to someone the same day? How on earth do they handle guests and employees that have lost their badges or keys? And even if they are unable to give you access, and why on earth do you expect not to work in someway until the problem is resolved?
There's been continual debate and discussion over working from home versus at the office since the pandemic began. What is your preference if your job would allow an option? Would you rather have a hybrid situation where you do a little of both? Do you think the world will ever go back to working in offices full time the way it used to be?
I prefer a little of both, but WFH has been common in the Bay Area for years prior to the pandemic anyway. That said, folks are long-past the time of wanting ‘normalcy’ and have, for the most part, returned to a somewhat typical routine (as with many other areas of our lives as well). If one prefers WFH (and is able to do so full-time), its likely they were doing such pre-pandemic; at the end of the day, it depends on the type of job they have (and their competency level as well). Reasonably speaking, it can’t all be about choice (other than quitting if they want).
However, I think most enjoy being around/interacting with others for at least part of the day i.e. grabbing a bite for a break or even a working breakfast/lunch; some simply want a change of scenery or need to get out of the house in order to concentrate (if their home is small or they have little kids who may distract them and so on).
I think you need a little history. It has been possible to work at home for far longer than 2020. In fact in the 2010ies I knew someone who had a hybrid schedule and people that took their laptops home with them if they knew they were going to be out for some reason(sick). The thing is prior to COVID work at home was a perk given to few employees, so fewer employees wanted it and fewer got it. Prior to COVID some tech workers were hot seating where they worked from home and came into the office to an table(not desk) that that could be shared with other workers and only were in the office part time.
What happened with COVID is that remote work got democratized. It got open to far more workers many of which find it more ideal. There are also some benefits to the employer as well(in the case of the previous hot seating the employer can use a smaller office with lower rent\upkeep costs to support the workforce). 2020 open the bottle on remote work and this genie isn't going to go back in the bottle.
You do justify going to work five days a week by what you do while you are in the office. If they think you are underworked you will get more work or your job will be changed or eliminated. The reason why you came to work everyday in the past was due to the limits of technology. Before the internet and cell phones it just was not possible to be in contact with workers or to easily submit work done after the internet slowly but surely every reason for one to come into the office save direct interaction with people was removed. Sometimes that direct interaction is useful to the employer(People sharing ideas), sometimes not(office gossip).
Things like COVID and the FLU can knock a whole office out and drop productivity. This is a company attempting to prevent this problem.
The policy was created before the technology for people to effectively work from home was created. The policy can and should be updated to reflect this reality. Now I can understand if the weather emergency creates a child care emergency(kids home from school) or personal emergency(home damage) or the emergency cuts your ability to get to the internet(Power Outage) but really what you need is more personal time off that isn't tied to weather.
What kind of company is unable to give building access to someone the same day? How on earth do they handle guests and employees that have lost their badges or keys? And even if they are unable to give you access, and why on earth do you expect not to work in someway until the problem is resolved?
I am not going to sit by idly while employers try to sneakily assert a right to use space inside my home without my consent. Whether I rent or own, my personal space is my personal space, and I have a near-absolute right to prevent the intrusion of other people or organizations who have not properly obtained my consent to enter, or to use part of the space for a purpose of their choosing.
My wife is actually looking for a job right now (NYC tri state area). Remote jobs are very rare, hybrid or full time in the office are much more prevalent. I think eventually once the current Covid surge is over in Spring, most jobs will be either hybrid or in office full time. Which I think is the best case scenario. I believe it is very unhealthy to always work from home without interacting with other people, without dressing up and trying to be presentable. I am pretty sure that fully remote work will cause even more obesity and ultimately depression, especially for single people and people with small kids who drive them crazy.
My personal preference is hybrid, going to the office 2 - 3 days a week...
I completely disagree with your assessment of what would happen to those working from home. I worked from home for an entire year. I worked many more hours than I would have in an office because I was very happy.
I stayed in my pajamas while working, but that doesn't mean I didn't look presentable when I went out into public. And I did go out into public because a) I had a lot more money due to me working longer (by choice), and b) working from home doesn't mean you'll never go outside again...?????
In fact, I had more energy, and spent more time with my dogs playing with them in the backyard, (could do that on my lunch break since I was already home), and because I had no commute (extra time to play with them after work). On days off, I would take the drive to the National Park about an hour away, and we would walk around all day - because I had more energy, because I wasn't drained by office water cooler politics, because I was happier!
I was able to afford better food because I had the energy to work longer hours during the week, so I ate healthier.
I exercised more with my dogs because I had all of that time back that allowed me to work more AND have more free time.
I lost weight, not gained it.
Even when people were yelling at me over the phone for something that someone else did, it didn't drain my energy because I was very. happy. I set up on my bed, 2 laptops, my phone, while in my pajamas and my pets all around me.
They loved that I was home, I loved that I was home with them. No, my dogs didn't bark. No my cats didn't meow or have fights because everyone was content that we were together the whole day. Most of the time, they slept while I worked.
I loved every last thing about it. If I could find a good paying work from home job again, (we got paid pretty well), I would be right on it, again.
There are some out there, but until they remove that 'new hires must be vaccinated' (dumb, I'm not around anyone), I won't apply. Once that nonsense is removed, I'll be applying to them.
My ultimate goal, since I have to work, is to get another job working from home - I would prefer as an Independent Contractor again so I can work as much as I want, but if it pays well, I'll do it as an employee, too.
I think that if some people want to be in the office, let them go to the office. If some want to work from home, let them work from home. One size does NOT fit everyone, and it would be better if companies realized this.
Companies: If you enjoy micro-managing your employees, you can still do that with remote workers.
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