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I completely disagree with your assessment of what would happen to those working from home. I worked from home for an entire year. I worked many more hours than I would have in an office because I was very happy.
I stayed in my pajamas while working, but that doesn't mean I didn't look presentable when I went out into public. And I did go out into public because a) I had a lot more money due to me working longer (by choice), and b) working from home doesn't mean you'll never go outside again...?????
Well, let's agree to disagree then. I would say that you sound very different from a typical American who would not exercise or move unless they are forced to. But if you check on-line, it seems that there is a scientific consensus about WFH causing increased obesity. This is one of many articles: https://obesitymedicine.org/achievin...ents-continue/
There's been continual debate and discussion over working from home versus at the office since the pandemic began. What is your preference if your job would allow an option? Would you rather have a hybrid situation where you do a little of both? Do you think the world will ever go back to working in offices full time the way it used to be?
No.
Its absolutely absurd in 2022 to drive a 4000lb car to an office to then connect to the same internet you have at home. In the old days it took a person to fetch a file from rows and rows of file cabinets, now its a few mouse clicks, then it took a mailman and trucks and airplanes to get it someplace, now thats a few mouse clicks too.
Why invent a modern world to keep doing things the old way ? Commuting to offices, thats rediculous!
Well, let's agree to disagree then. I would say that you sound very different from a typical American who would not exercise or move unless they are forced to. But if you check on-line, it seems that there is a scientific consensus about WFH causing increased obesity. This is one of many articles: https://obesitymedicine.org/achievin...ents-continue/
First - this article simply talks about how WFH can lead to obesity. I don't think there is enough data yet to really determine if WFH, by itself, actually causes obesity.
I think the weight gain phenomena during Covid-19 is a result of a drastic change in our culture. While working remote was a factor, it's wasn't the the sole cause.
One thing to remember about 2020 was that people were essentially locked in their homes. Most of the places you would go on a social level were closed. Most gyms were closed, most bars were closed - if you weren't an "essential" establishment, you were pretty much closed. Not only that, the kids had no school, and they had very little outlet as "gatherings" were not exactly okay. And of course, we were in a situation where thousands of people were dying each day and we had no way to really stop it. Not exactly a stress free environment. So yea, to say WFH caused obesity during the Pandemic is uh... a bit of an exaggeration.
I'm not saying WFH can't be a contributing factor to obesity (I mean hell, working a desk job wherever you are is certainly less "healthy" than being on a active role), but it's definitely not the only or even the main cause. And while some of these things "can" happen - there are also positives. Remote work gives people MORE time to socialize, get more exercise, cook a healthy meal vs. picking up five guys on the way home, stress less about stuff you don't have time to do because you're stuck at work or in traffic...etc.
All that said - to the original questions. That would be a NO. There are certainly jobs that simply cannot be performed from home, even in an office environment. Not to mention that despite the biggest change to remote work we've seen... there are a lot of people that simply can't get over the "how do I know people are working if I don't see them" mindset.
I previously worked in manufacturing for many years, making pretty little cars and trucks for GM and Toyota. Cars don't make themselves, so I was there long days 6-7 days a week on my feet most of the day - never imagined doing anything else. That all came to an end during the last recession when the plant closed. I tried to stick it out in manufacturing, but that just wasn't happening a decade ago, so I made the switch to healthcare.
I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, but wanted to get out of this area and out of the state, but where I wanted to go on the Oregon coast, there aren't a lot of jobs in general and the ones that are there generally don't pay much. That led me to searching for jobs or industries that have the potential for remote work, even if the jobs weren't remote at that time. I also needed to gain experience in another field since I was working in manufacturing for so long. I also wanted something that won't be so impacted by the economy like manufacturing was during that last recession.
That led me to healthcare and specifically a call center at a major hospital. Now the job already was remote, as it wasn't located at the clinics that are serviced by the call center, or even in the same city or county for that matter, but WFH was not an option at that time. My plan was to gain some experience and then transition into a position that would let me work remotely and then sell my home and move.
Then came mid-March 2020, the plan was to send us home for a couple of weeks to help flatten the curve. The Bay Area shut down pretty early on and they were serious about it. The scramble was on just to get enough laptops for all the employees that were going to be remote and pray for all the ones that couldn't be and had to have direct contact with the growing number of sick patients.
I told myself I wasn't going to shave or cut my hair until we go back to work. I've now got hair past my shoulders and a beard half way down my chest. Some people have gone back into the offices, others are doing a flex model, for us the plan was a flex model going in 1-2 days per month starting this past June, but that since fell apart and we don't know if or when we will be going back as management of the unit I work in is apparently unable to commit to anything.
I don't mind, it's what I wanted. I am perfectly fine never stepping into that office again and enjoyed my work previously, but enjoy it even more now. I don't miss the 90 minute 40 mile commute in each direction nor paying the $7 (soon to be $8) bridge toll everyday. I do not understand the people that want us all to return to the office to socialize and mingle and show off their new outfit. That is not what I go to work for, I go to do a job. I am not anti-socialization nor making friends at work, but all that comes secondary to me, first is to do the job that I was hired for.
We will have a several month long on-site training later next year as workload changes a bit. After that, if they still can't make up their minds about WFH, I think I will pack up, sell my place and move. If they want me to occasionally come in for a day for meetings or whatever, I am fine with that. If they want us back permanently, there are several offices in the organization that are permanently remote and I will probably attempt to transfer to one and if not, possibly move on to something else. Life is far too short to not be able to do what I want to do and where I want to do it (within reason of course). If my employer feels that my higher performance since working remotely isn't of value tot hem, I will have to look elsewhere.
I am not going to sit by idly while employers try to sneakily assert a right to use space inside my home without my consent. Whether I rent or own, my personal space is my personal space, and I have a near-absolute right to prevent the intrusion of other people or organizations who have not properly obtained my consent to enter, or to use part of the space for a purpose of their choosing.
Well physically they have not entered without your permission as they have your consent because in order to work somewhere you must consent to their rules/policies. For the majority of people the advantages out weight the disadvantages. Eliminating the time and cost of commuting is a major attraction. Having your own space(your house) available to you for breaks is another. Your employer does not have a right to use the space inside your house, as you could take your work elsewhere if you like.
Of course not. I wouldn't take a work from home job and there are dozens of us who feel the same! The office is a break from my life, and my life is a break from the office. Too much of either wouldn't be good for me. I enjoy the camaraderie and engaging with people I probably wouldn't otherwise engage with.
Agreed. Unless I can literally travel abroad and "work from a beach" then working remotely at home does nothing for me. We all got a small taste of it during COVID lockdown when many employers asked workers to stay and work from home. A lot of it, in my industry, consisted of just creating "busy work" from thin air that can be done at home or via a teleconference.
Not having to commute to work, waste gas, get dressed for work, buy lunch, attend boring meetings, sit at a desk for 8 hours, or chat with annoying colleagues is awesome. But at the end of the day, unless you are free to travel abroad as you work, you're sitll just at home with a computer and will quickly get bored.
Ok here's the problem with getting too cozy with WFH being normal. This is in the planning phases at many worksites that I deal with.
Downsizing offices, opening branch offices for taxing purposes, and reduction of staff when using overseas workers are more viable.
There's gonna be more on-going work force reduction due to not needing office workers who maybe attending to in-office needs. Instead of 3-4 front desk workers they only need 1-2 or none.
A lot of businesses will also see softer demand for office real estate which would reduce income and less office management workers.
A lot of work will be moved to the cloud and have more global workforce to manage rather than local workers.
This is all positive for technology and work ethos but it will require major economic changes and tax code revisions.
I agree with the posters who bring up that we have the technology to work from home. I've been saying it for 20 years. The only reason some companies won't do it is because they are control freaks.
Stupid question, 'How do I know if they are actually working?' Really. No one knows how to see the production of an individual employee? How do you know if they are working in the office? One of the reasons I HATE being in an office is because I always seem to have that one - because there is always one - co-worker who appears busy, but is actually doing a whole lot of nothing. Tab back to the 'work' screen when you see the manager or CEO walk by. Carry a piece of paper around the office as if it's important, meanwhile, flit around from desk to desk, blabbering to friends about stupid crap. Come in each morning, sign in to the computer, take off to the break room for coffee and mindless blathering for a half an hour.
Why does this happen? Because the managers don't pay close attention when the people ARE in the office. I guess they enjoy the delusion that they are running a tight ship, when in reality, they have no idea what is going on, and who is actually working vs those who pretend.
Musk just proved that a whole lot of people were getting big checks for making absolutely no difference to the company.
As far as competing with other people: Be cheap with your employees, hire in another country because you don't have to pay this or that - you get what you pay for. Some don't seem to care about quality, which says exactly what they think of their customers.
Those freaking out about 'the company using part of their house' - you can write it off in taxes - if you use that particular portion for company work, only.
Having said all of that and what I said before, not all companies are worth it. I applied for a WFH job just recently, it pays pretty well, got my interview quickly, got hired if I accepted.
I chose not to accept.
Why?
Because some companies can NOT get over it when they can't monitor every last thing their employees do. It's absurd. Do they trust who they hire, or not?
This particular company wanted me to work with a webcam on, the entire time I worked. Hell no. That's creepy, and I don't need to be on a baby monitor. If a company can't trust me, I can't trust them.
I agree with the posters who bring up that we have the technology to work from home. I've been saying it for 20 years. The only reason some companies won't do it is because they are control freaks.
Actually, based on surveys, the vast majority of employees (60 to 75%) prefer a hybrid model of WFH/office - particularly in cities or amongst younger professionals in high COL areas (where home offices are more difficult to come by) and/or they have young kids at home to distract their work environment. It’s precisely the reason why many chose to work in an office prior to the pandemic as well. There are also those who must meet with clients, staff and team members; and since the (isolation of the) pandemic, there are many who were more than eager to return to the office - at least some of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
Why does this happen? Because the managers don't pay close attention when the people ARE in the office. I guess they enjoy the delusion that they are running a tight ship, when in reality, they have no idea what is going on, and who is actually working vs those who pretend.
It’s not uncommon for Directors/VP’s to be in a different location than those on their team or in their department - particularly those workers who essentially manage themselves (and are able to work from home in the first place). In other words, it’s not typical to have an ‘office manager’ of sorts looking over everyone’s shoulders or ‘running a tight ship’ (and allowing for socialization or brain-storming as a team actually increases productivity). It’s no secret those who are likeable/sociable (to a reasonable degree) are more successful, as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
Because some companies can NOT get over it when they can't monitor every last thing their employees do. It's absurd.
What a waste of manpower and an absurd notion in and of itself, as if there aren’t other ways in which a company can monitor one’s performance (other than looking busy, as you describe in your post). In fact, employees are able to select their own (flexible) schedules, for the most part, in order to accommodate their personal needs/preferences (if possible). Are you suggesting there is always a manager available to monitor each employee round-the-clock, lol?
Perhaps relative to a blue-collar environment, it’s different; but in terms of tech and those jobs in which one is able to WFH independently, most employers are (and have been) accommodating to such. In large part, it is the employees themselves who do not want to be stuck at home (for various reasons). In fact, many of those who are self-employed have been renting office space (in droves) on their own; hence the increasing popularity of such office development in recent years. Folks, as a whole, don’t want to be stuck at home.
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