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... poverty is expensive and is a massive vicious cycle. Lift people up to just the level of the floor, and you could help to change their circumstances enough so that maybe they can change what's possible within those circumstances. The fact that they don't have a job? Also, there's plenty of working poor. As in, people who do in fact work, but are still poor.
Poverty? BTDT my first 24 years or so. Poverty sucks. I'm still running from it, always will.
Working poor? What gripes me is many retail workers, like those at Wal-Mart, are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps. Those food stamps are paid for via Federal programs, which means the U.S. Treasury is subsidizing the biggest, richest companies, and wealthiest people, in the country. Talk about socialism, this is a case of socialism gone wild. But Wal-Mart can't raise wages on their own, if they do, the other stores will undercut their prices. The best way to fix this is simply raise the minimum wage to level the playing field for all businesses -- and index the minimum wage for future inflation.
Lift people up to the floor? Yes, by all means. That's the gist of what's called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which has five levels of existence. Get people to the first level, basic human needs for food and shelter, and they can then work themselves up the ladder from that starting point. (Click on the 2nd pyramid in the link to see the basic 5 levels.) Houston is having a good success dealing with their homeless population by doing exactly that, getting people off the streets and into a decent living situation, at which point they're able to work on their respective issues.
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Borrowers with annual income during the pandemic of under $125,000 (for individuals) or under $250,000 (for married couples or heads of households) who received a Pell Grant in college will be eligible for up to $20,000 in debt cancellation. Borrowers who met those income standards but did not receive a Pell Grant will be eligible for up to $10,000 in relief.
Heh, you know there’s a few people out there with $125,001 annual income
Poverty? BTDT my first 24 years or so. Poverty sucks. I'm still running from it, always will.
Working poor? What gripes me is many retail workers, like those at Wal-Mart, are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps. Those food stamps are paid for via Federal programs, which means the U.S. Treasury is subsidizing the biggest, richest companies, and wealthiest people, in the country. Talk about socialism, this is a case of socialism gone wild. But Wal-Mart can't raise wages on their own, if they do, the other stores will undercut their prices. The best way to fix this is simply raise the minimum wage to level the playing field for all businesses -- and index the minimum wage for future inflation.
Lift people up to the floor? Yes, by all means. That's the gist of what's called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which has five levels of existence. Get people to the first level, basic human needs for food and shelter, and they can then work themselves up the ladder from that starting point. (Click on the 2nd pyramid in the link to see the basic 5 levels.) Houston is having a good success dealing with their homeless population by doing exactly that, getting people off the streets and into a decent living situation, at which point they're able to work on their respective issues.
How high are you expecting a grocery store to raise their wage? Walmart around me already pay $15ph. Ever see anyone working hard at Walmart? Me neither. What are they paid for? Level the playing field, you say. So the minimum wage for a doctor should be the same as a grocery worker which should be the same as an engineer which should be the same in a low cost of living area which should be the same in a high cost of living area which should be the same for no education or experience required which should be the same as college education required which should be the same for low risk and high risk dangerous jobs which should be the same as hard labor which should be the same as … I wonder if you’re capable of seeing beyond the ludicrous fantasy
This thread reminded me of our PM in 1987 who famously announced that because of his party’s policies, “no Australian child will be living in poverty by 1990.”
Idealistic and well intentioned, Bob Hawke soon regretted that speech and I think the idea was changed to no child need be living in poverty.
The problem with universal incomes is that people struggling with addiction, inability to work, inability to manage finances etc are not likely to be greatly helped.
Know this - the government is responsible for 99% of the problems they offer to "resolve."
Anything government gives, is first taken from someone else (you?), minus a cut for the "management".
And no endowed right is subject to taxation - only government privileges can be taxed.
Which raises the question : "Which federal privilege are WE exercising to incur an excise tax on our wages?"
If taking from one and giving to another wasn't a violation of basic rights, it's still not a remedy for poverty.
If money did cure poverty - go all in.
Credit everyone's bank account (make bankers THRILLED) with 22 billion billion dollards, so that everyone is equally wealthy and never needs more money EVER AGAIN.
Easy Peasy.
Except that happens when no one bothers to work or trade for "more money" that they don't need?
>duh<
Even the starving children are phenomenally wealthy.
. . . .
. . . .
If you need it spelled out - money madness relies on money being scarce and in demand. Eliminate either or both, and the system collapses.
Ultimately, all prosperity is based on the prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed.
Money has nothing to do with it.
In fact, scarce money throttles trade.
There never has been a time in history when the money token supply and value kept pace with the marketplace of goods and services. It was always corrupted, so that usurers could reap vast fortunes from their victims, who were desperate enough to borrow, and pay interest for the privilege.
Know this - the government is responsible for 99% of the problems they offer to "resolve."
Wayyyyy overstated and wrong to boot.
As regards THIS problem ... it's all about having too many people.
Most of that is rooted in the homes (or what passes for homes) that have had
a) too many children overall b) too many too early in the life of their parents.
Result? Too many having to compete for too few jobs overall and higher up the food chain
too few jobs that will pay decently enough. Too many forks poised over the pie.
Any scheme intended to help this knot of surplus humanity as it passes through the snake
MUST first start with means and methods to discourage/prevent these people from creating
yet another wave of humanity surplus to need that our children's taxes will be needed to support.
Providing cash (however that is managed) merely because they exist? No way.
Ever see anyone working hard at Walmart? Me neither. What are they paid for?
What an absurd statement. Of course plenty of employees work hard at Walmart, including on weekends, and probably long hours around the holidays especially. I'd say it's likely often boring, monotonous work, often physical and on their feet all day- it's a job that many of us wouldn't want to do. Yes, they should absolutely be compensated at least $15 per hour worked, just like any other laborer. They're critical for the store's operation and the company's profits. And that's not a lot of money anymore, I hope you're aware of that. I couldn't afford even the tiniest studio apartment in my town with that income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics
If money did cure poverty - go all in.
Absence of money is basically the very definition of poverty. So yes, I would say money cures poverty.
Quote:
Credit everyone's bank account (make bankers THRILLED) with 22 billion billion dollards, so that everyone is equally wealthy and never needs more money EVER AGAIN.
How about no, don't do that at all. Apparently you're confusing suggestions for policy adjustments to attack poverty, with completely ridiculous artificial hyperinflation which have nothing to do with the other.
The fallacy of this argument is that your "conservative" friends aren't really conservatives.
If they believe that the government needs to give out other people's money EQUALLY to everyone, them included, it just means they're typical Liberals who don't want to miss out on the freebees.
Tell 'em I said so.
Last edited by huitrecouture; 08-25-2022 at 09:47 AM..
Poverty? BTDT my first 24 years or so. Poverty sucks. I'm still running from it, always will.
Working poor? What gripes me is many retail workers, like those at Wal-Mart, are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps. Those food stamps are paid for via Federal programs, which means the U.S. Treasury is subsidizing the biggest, richest companies, and wealthiest people, in the country. Talk about socialism, this is a case of socialism gone wild. But Wal-Mart can't raise wages on their own, if they do, the other stores will undercut their prices. The best way to fix this is simply raise the minimum wage to level the playing field for all businesses -- and index the minimum wage for future inflation.
Lift people up to the floor? Yes, by all means. That's the gist of what's called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which has five levels of existence. Get people to the first level, basic human needs for food and shelter, and they can then work themselves up the ladder from that starting point. (Click on the 2nd pyramid in the link to see the basic 5 levels.) Houston is having a good success dealing with their homeless population by doing exactly that, getting people off the streets and into a decent living situation, at which point they're able to work on their respective issues.
TOTALLY FALSE. (and not an economically sound argument either)
And a popular Walmart bashing claim.
Feb 2021: Walmart raising wages for 425,000 workers
With the latest pay increase, about 730,000 of the company’s employees will make at least $15 an hour
There are OVER 15 well paying full time Walmart job ads advertised in my little Florida beach town RIGHT NOW (some with hiring multiple people) topping off at $90,000 per year.
PROTIP: You work your way UP in salary just like every McDonalds executive started out on the food line in a store.
Everything you promote goes back to give people other people's money for no reason ....just to be "nice".
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 08-25-2022 at 11:40 AM..
Reason: Removed generalizations. Please read Great Debates rules posted at top of forum. Thank you.
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