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Old 10-24-2022, 03:44 PM
 
18,044 posts, read 25,090,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
I think we can probably look at some Republican controlled states and see a hint of what it would be like. Not a pretty sight.
1. Defund public services
2. Privatize everything
3. Blame poor people for everything

 
Old 10-24-2022, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,940 posts, read 7,297,355 times
Reputation: 16078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
In addition -

A recent law in Georgia has made it so that anyone can issue a "challenge" to any other voter's registration. If you are challenged thusly, you may only cast an in person provisional ballot and will have to show up in person to prove your identity. It is of course completely possible to obtain lists of those who are registered as affiliated with the Democratic Party, and simply spam repeated challenges against all of them.

Well...simple solution, right? Just show up and prove your identity and residence? Well, for some, yes, though poll workers have had some confusion and it's been a bit messy, but for one group in particular it is IMPOSSIBLE to do... Military members stationed not only overseas but in other states, but who must vote in their state of residence although not physically present there.

And of course Kemp has assembled a volunteer team of "vigilante" challengers to disenfranchise registered Democrats and prevent them from voting.

Oh, you'll say they must be illegals or dead people or something. But they're not. They are citizens. Legal and eligible. Many serving in our Armed Forces but now not allowed to vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...w-election-law
Well if Republicans can "spam" Democrats in Georgia, then isn't the reverse true?

This is something that should have been sorted out before now, shouldn't it? Major League Baseball pulled the All-Star Game out of Atlanta in 2021, in protest to "Jim Crow on steroids" but we never heard of this provision in the law, only that "volunteers can't hand out free water" anymore.

I did a quick scan of the Wikipedia article on the 2021 Georgia Election Integrity Act, and I did not see anything on "unlimited challenges". Can you point me to the section of the law where I can read about it?
 
Old 10-24-2022, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,235 posts, read 14,461,031 times
Reputation: 39088
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Well if Republicans can "spam" Democrats in Georgia, then isn't the reverse true?

This is something that should have been sorted out before now, shouldn't it? Major League Baseball pulled the All-Star Game out of Atlanta in 2021, in protest to "Jim Crow on steroids" but we never heard of this provision in the law, only that "volunteers can't hand out free water" anymore.

I did a quick scan of the Wikipedia article on the 2021 Georgia Election Integrity Act, and I did not see anything on "unlimited challenges". Can you point me to the section of the law where I can read about it?
Sure can. Rather than Wikipedia, how about we go straight to the primary source, the law itself. Section 15 on page 23 deals with this. (Note that in the language of this bill, the word, "elector" refers to any voter seeking to cast a ballot, not something like a slate of electors in the electoral college.)

https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legisla...0212022/201121
Quote:
571 (a) Any elector of a county or municipality may challenge the qualifications of any person applying to register to vote in the county or municipality and may challenge the qualifications of any elector of the county or municipality whose name appears on the list of electors. Such challenges shall be in writing and shall specify distinctly the grounds of the challenge. There shall not be a limit on the number of persons whose qualifications such elector may challenge.
This law took effect in July of last year.
 
Old 10-24-2022, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Texas
820 posts, read 457,402 times
Reputation: 2094
I see a lot of thoughts on radical overhaul if the Repubs get control but I would urge people to look at history. As others have pointed out, for all the bluster and yakking about what they will do, the Repubs simply don't follow through on most of it.
And even more convenient for them they have now promised to hold interminable hearings on just about everything that has hurt the Right Wing of the party's feelings over the past 2 or 3 years. Repubs at the national level are almost indistinguishable for Dems. (Remember Reagan's promise to dissolve the Department of Education? LOL) I think both are bought and paid for by people out of our league (Bill Gates bragging about helping author legislation comes to mind) that they won't stray too far from what is now going on. They'll make a bunch of noise for their individual constituents but in the end, pfft!
Not trying to be inflammatory here. I just hope people on both sides will take a breath and get back to being fellow Americans again instead of being stirred up all the time.
And write your Congressman/Senator! Politicians may be bought but they still must be elected!
 
Old 10-24-2022, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Sandy Eggo's North County
10,145 posts, read 6,594,069 times
Reputation: 16475
If the Rep's had all 3 branches of Gov't, what would they do?

Simple, they'd do what they did when they HAD all 3 branches of Gov't, in the past.

They rolled over.

* Don't forget the 4th branch of Gov't. That being the mass media. (Quite possibly, THE most powerful of the branches.)
 
Old 10-25-2022, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,940 posts, read 7,297,355 times
Reputation: 16078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Sure can. Rather than Wikipedia, how about we go straight to the primary source, the law itself. Section 15 on page 23 deals with this. (Note that in the language of this bill, the word, "elector" refers to any voter seeking to cast a ballot, not something like a slate of electors in the electoral college.)

https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legisla...0212022/201121


This law took effect in July of last year.
Thanks for providing that.

But in the Guardian story, the young woman was taken by surprise at the polling place when she tried to vote. The law clearly states that a challenge has to be made in writing and a reason for the challenge must be stated. Furthermore, the challenged voter gets a hearing:

"579 Notice of the date, time, and place of the hearing shall be served upon the person whose
580 qualifications are being challenged along with a copy of such challenge and upon the
581 elector making the challenge within ten business days following the filing of the challenge.
582 The person being challenged shall receive at least three days' notice of the date, time, and
583 place of the hearing. Such notice shall be served either by first-class mail addressed to the
584 mailing address shown on the person's voter registration records or in the manner provided
585 in subsection (c) of Code Section 21-2-228."


So, is the law not being followed? If the law is not being followed, then you can hardly blame the law for that. I think a follow-up story is needed. Was the young woman not notified? Were so many challenges filed by insincere right-wing activists that the system was overwhelmed? How many challenges were filed? What were the stated reasons? What is the penalty for bearing false witness under this law?
 
Old 10-25-2022, 09:35 AM
 
18,044 posts, read 25,090,040 times
Reputation: 16726
A Trump Mandate? - Nov. 2016

"With a GOP-controlled House and Senate, the Republican Party has a clear mandate, and mission, courtesy of Donald Trump, the man at the top of the ticket: to make America great again."



Claiming mandate, GOP Congress lays plans to propel sweeping conservative agenda - Jan. 2017

When the 115th Congress begins this week, with Republicans firmly in charge of the House and Senate, much of that legislation will form the basis of the most ambitious conservative policy agenda since the 1920s. And rather than a Democratic president standing in the way, a soon-to-be-inaugurated Donald Trump seems ready to sign much of it into law.

The dynamic reflects just how ready Congress is to push through a conservative makeover of government, and how little Trump’s unpredictable, attention-grabbing style matters to the Republican game plan.
 
Old 10-25-2022, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,235 posts, read 14,461,031 times
Reputation: 39088
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Thanks for providing that.

But in the Guardian story, the young woman was taken by surprise at the polling place when she tried to vote. The law clearly states that a challenge has to be made in writing and a reason for the challenge must be stated. Furthermore, the challenged voter gets a hearing:

"579 Notice of the date, time, and place of the hearing shall be served upon the person whose
580 qualifications are being challenged along with a copy of such challenge and upon the
581 elector making the challenge within ten business days following the filing of the challenge.
582 The person being challenged shall receive at least three days' notice of the date, time, and
583 place of the hearing. Such notice shall be served either by first-class mail addressed to the
584 mailing address shown on the person's voter registration records or in the manner provided
585 in subsection (c) of Code Section 21-2-228."


So, is the law not being followed? If the law is not being followed, then you can hardly blame the law for that. I think a follow-up story is needed. Was the young woman not notified? Were so many challenges filed by insincere right-wing activists that the system was overwhelmed? How many challenges were filed? What were the stated reasons? What is the penalty for bearing false witness under this law?
I think that the problem is that there's a bureaucratic process spelled out, but at the same time, people are not sure what bits of it are their responsibility or were not properly trained/informed on how to handle this situation. Let alone the volume of challenges that have occurred, the one man who goes by "Doc" has personally filed over 4,000 of them.

In a sense though, at least part of her experience is "as described" in the law. She was supposed to file a provisional ballot, which would then be marked, "CHALLENGED" on a plain envelope that the sealed ballot envelope is placed inside of, and it would be held pending resolution of this "hearing." Now she did seem blindsided by it, and so maybe she arrived to try and vote before mailed notice of her hearing could reach her, by coincidence of timing. I mean, she's trying to do early voting obviously so... Could be that notice is on its way.

One wonders how much time the local governments are willing to waste on frivolous hearings before they start throwing out these challenges...maybe, though, depending on who is in charge at what levels, they would be happy to waste infinite time on it. Or they just count on a lot of people not being able to show up for some hearing or take tons of time to prove their right to vote beyond what they've already done when they registered.

This whole thing is just another in a string of things like poll taxes, literacy tests, grandfather clauses, "we'll take a hunting license as valid ID but not a student ID", moving and closing polling locations...purposeful shenanigans.
 
Old 10-25-2022, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,940 posts, read 7,297,355 times
Reputation: 16078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I think that the problem is that there's a bureaucratic process spelled out, but at the same time, people are not sure what bits of it are their responsibility or were not properly trained/informed on how to handle this situation. Let alone the volume of challenges that have occurred, the one man who goes by "Doc" has personally filed over 4,000 of them.

In a sense though, at least part of her experience is "as described" in the law. She was supposed to file a provisional ballot, which would then be marked, "CHALLENGED" on a plain envelope that the sealed ballot envelope is placed inside of, and it would be held pending resolution of this "hearing." Now she did seem blindsided by it, and so maybe she arrived to try and vote before mailed notice of her hearing could reach her, by coincidence of timing. I mean, she's trying to do early voting obviously so... Could be that notice is on its way.

One wonders how much time the local governments are willing to waste on frivolous hearings before they start throwing out these challenges...maybe, though, depending on who is in charge at what levels, they would be happy to waste infinite time on it. Or they just count on a lot of people not being able to show up for some hearing or take tons of time to prove their right to vote beyond what they've already done when they registered.

This whole thing is just another in a string of things like poll taxes, literacy tests, grandfather clauses, "we'll take a hunting license as valid ID but not a student ID", moving and closing polling locations...purposeful shenanigans.

How can a guy just calling himself "Doc" challenge people? Here is the online form, which requires a lot of information including complete name and address:
https://sos.ga.gov/form/stop-voter-fraud
Still, I think it's odd that on the form, there is no stated penalty for swearing false witness against your neighbor.

But your assertion that a student ID is not acceptable, is false. At least in Georgia, a student ID from a state/county/public college is valid. For obvious reasons, an ID from a private college is not valid.
 
Old 10-25-2022, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,235 posts, read 14,461,031 times
Reputation: 39088
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
How can a guy just calling himself "Doc" challenge people? Here is the online form, which requires a lot of information including complete name and address:
https://sos.ga.gov/form/stop-voter-fraud
Still, I think it's odd that on the form, there is no stated penalty for swearing false witness against your neighbor.

But your assertion that a student ID is not acceptable, is false. At least in Georgia, a student ID from a state/county/public college is valid. For obvious reasons, an ID from a private college is not valid.
"Doc" was interviewed by this guy, Greg Palast for a documentary on voter suppression in GA. I'm sure that he puts his actual name on the forms, but it is less memorable than his nickname to my brain when typing a post. The clip I watched is here:
https://twitter.com/Greg_Palast/stat...42827636867074

This brought the matter initially to my attention, but of course I did not form an entire committed opinion based on a video on Twitter. I went and looked into it more. Checked out the claims. Here, too, is another article talking about this, as well as similar things happening in a few other states:

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midt...9d53fa3a260111

The student ID thing was in another southern state years ago, and is just an oft-cited example (my recollection is possibly TX but I am not sure.) I did not claim that it was a thing in Georgia presently, it was an example from a list of examples of technical requirements that can be used as voter suppression tactics. The point being that when people say "We need voter ID laws!" well...OK, but the point of a lot of these laws isn't really to actually prevent fraud, but to fine tune it to decrease certain votes while letting others through more easily, at least as it is sometimes put into practice. I don't have any issue with asking voters to prove eligibility, but it needs to be set up in such a way that it will not alter election outcomes by making it harder for specific groups to vote (who are legally eligible) on the presumption that most of them would vote a certain way... And yet, that very thing has happened since Reconstruction and can still happen, and in one fashion or another, IS happening.

The fact is, most of the biggest issues that define the parties as we know them, are not winning positions for Republicans in terms of statistical popularity among Americans. Without the popular support, the only way that they can continue to win and hold significant power here, is by fiddling with procedural matters to gain an advantage. Yet they keep shouting to the heavens that if they don't win, it's "rigged." We are getting into, "every accusation is a confession" territory here.

But anyhow, as you've been demonstrating with the nit-picking attempts on my posts here, you don't have to take my word for it...and by all means, don't! The main source for most of my information and positions on politics, directly or indirectly, is Dr. Heather Cox Richardson. She's got a Facebook, a Twitter, a Substack, a YouTube channel, and a podcast called "Now & Then" on Cafe/Vox Media. She is an American historian who has published a number of books (which I have read) and she is a professor of American history at Boston College. In particular I enjoy her daily letters, which as any quality source of information should, are always backed up by a list of cited sources for her points (I can tell that this is important to you - GOOD!) and her twice weekly live chats on Facebook (one due to start in the next half hour unless I'm mistaken) on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

She is in fact, if aligned with anyone or anything, most attached to the Republican Party when it was the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower. But she is very clear that what we're dealing with now, is absolutely not that anymore...and she would know.
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