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Old 03-16-2023, 11:57 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
Puritanism has been a blight on the American psyche for centuries. I would not attempt to assign it solely with any sort of religious, governmental, or collective conspiracy theories. It transcends the religious context that is frequently, or historically, used to define it. It is simply an ingrained, but learned, way of limiting human potential. In some ways, in America, it is the sea that we swim in. Like fish, we are not fully aware of it. It fosters a sometimes confining and oppressive guilt-ridden view of things. That is easily transformed into a judgmental attitude and perspective of others. I have been to countries where there is no pervading sense of puritanistic austerity in personal affairs. You can sense that something familiar is missing -- a weight has been lifted. It is missing or at least has taken on a different and minimized influence. It is difficult to explain unless you experience it. Since it permeates American life, perhaps puritanism is best defined by its absence.
I largely agree but it assumes other labels and forms elsewhere. It is an element of "social democracy", which really is the mercantilist system carried forward. Someone is seeking to regiment society; that is the common element.
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Old 03-16-2023, 02:33 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I largely agree but it assumes other labels and forms elsewhere. It is an element of "social democracy", which really is the mercantilist system carried forward. Someone is seeking to regiment society; that is the common element.
I don't think it is "someone" in our case. People talk about generational trauma as something that just is handed down, generation to generation. I think we have a similar, almost congenital, situation with puritanism. With puritanism comes a certain heightened consciousness that is not all bad but when over done it can be crippling. That is part of the current controversy and debate over wokeness, which I will not get into. It probably produces a heightened fundamental consciousness of racism that is stronger in our country than in some other countries where there is almost no recognition of it at all. We have developed a sense of equality and a minimalized sense of social status that is easily upset by events or personal behaviors. In America, one of the first things that children encounter as they enter school and recognize and respond to is the concept of fairness and the feeling that something is or isn't fair. A lot of parents have been lectured to by five- and six-year-olds about whether something or someone is fair. That concept seems to get nuanced as we grow older and perhaps puritanism is part of that process -- stronger or weaker in some.
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Old 03-17-2023, 07:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Well there's capitalism and capitalism. Using your definition you are calling every country in the world "capitalist" except or the two hardest police states. There is a dizzying array of systems elsewhere. You have "crony capitalism" in most countries, such as Turkey, Russia, the "Stans" and China. You have "social democracy" in most of Europe except Russia, Canada, Japan and many others, you have "G-d only knows what" in most of Latin America and Africa. I would put into the "capitalist" column the UK, Israel, the U.S., Australia" and I don't know where I'd put New Zealand and Ireland.

Well there's poverty and poverty. American poverty in general looks nothing like Mexico's or most of Latin America's, much less Africa's. In Mexico we were taken on a boat tide to go waterskiing from Club Med. The poverty I saw in the backwaters was shocking. Then again, so was the poverty I could see from the plane on the approach to Jackson, Mississippi in 1981.

What do you call US capitalism?
Is it still capitalism if it is “crony capitalism”?

Poverty is poverty - here or over there- if one has nothing/very little to eat or can not afford (life saving) medicine for a child or to heat the house.
The only difference- more help could be available in more prosperous countries - like a food bank - that is if one can get there- car/ gas/insurance, money for public transport, physical ability to drive
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