Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why is it that everyone always throws the response of, "If you don't have children or get married, you will be lonely when you grow older." This comment is always made towards young women but never to men.
What makes people think that all women want to be married with children (which I personally see as a ball and chain), and even worse - that they want to have children? The thought of having children makes me shiver because it is too much of a responsibility that I never wanted.
Also, why is "growing old and alone" a subject for women to fear, but never directed at men? Not even gay men are told that.
Here's what I think:
1. This is to put pressure on women into thinking they need a man and babies to be happy
2. Men can only feel like men if and only if women are dependent on them
3. Men who make these types of videos on YouTube fear that they are losing control over women
Also, what makes people think that if they have a family, that they will never be lonely? Seriously, this is why people cheat, divorce, and/or never visit their parents after their parents age.
A friend of mine in her 50's had the perfect husband and child. Her husband recently died of a sudden heart attack and her son is now going off to college. Now she's complaining about being lonely. Meanwhile, I'm not. I never that those losses.
For the sake of argument for the majority of human history women had little purpose in life but to find a husband and have his children, devoting her life to caring for them. Womens value was pretty much based on that. Men OTOH were involved in society, work, business, war, government, etc. outside the home and family. They could generate incomes and be financially independent. In many cultures children in return would care for their aging parents. Women would care for their aging husbands physically and women lived longer than men, generally. Therefore if you had no children, you would spend your life alone.
I have never experienced these comments IRL.
In my family (older generation) I have one aunt and one uncle who never had children. My aunt was married/divorced/married/widowed and my uncle had a girlfriend for 50+ years. My aunt had lots of friends to keep her company, she stayed busy and when she needed care her nieces (my sister specifically) took care of her until the end. My uncle sits alone in his house.
1.Men, getting older, can still nab women who are substantially younger, but it's not true for women.
2.Men, tending to get paid more, will be able to pay for "company."
Also, people tend to marry within 5 years of their own age. For women 78%, men 80% first marriage. For remarriage 62% women, 57% men.
New trend towards younger men dating older women, also women are now making more money.
That said seems to me having to pay a hooker for company is the epitomy of loneliness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage
The remark comes from people who have children, and this is their justification for having children when they really didn't want them, and projecting doom and gloom on others.
There are plenty of families that have children and as adults the children are estranged from the parents for a number of reasons. Or the children have moved far away where they couldn't possibly be of assistance to the parents.
The idea of creating additional humans so when you get old you expect them to help you is selfish and sick.
Misery loves company.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 12-13-2023 at 07:39 PM..
Reason: Merged 2:1 to get past the one-line rule.
You don't know?
Old men can woo young women, but old women rarely find young men.
That leaves the older women without mates or children, pretty much on their own.
Also, people tend to marry within 5 years of their own age. For women 78%, men 80% first marriage. For remarriage 62% women, 57% men.
New trend towards younger men dating older women, also women are now making more money.
That said seems to me having to pay a hooker for company is the epitomy of loneliness.
I don't know...maybe in current American culture where it is so stigmatized, and with the genuine likelihood of some kind of exploitation or awfulness going on, I can see that.
But the basic concept? I wish it were legal and more normal/OK. Not just for men either, and not just for strictly sex-acts, like... I can envision somewhat more intimate kind of a massage by someone who is expert and knows how to give incredible sensations, as a "luxury resort" kind of experience for women, too. Or heck, better yet, also have classes to teach our partners how to make us feel good. That would be super cool. As it is...anything even close to that is so far underground in the sexual subcultures that most people don't know it exists, where it even does.
But I personally don't see sex without love as being dirty or shameful. Or pleasure to be sinful or bad. I think that a lot of the US's Puritan (or Victorian) hang-ups are ridiculous.
I can see how there would be great benefit if the industry were safer for workers and more regulated and controlled for testing and health stuff. I could understand the sense in a man wanting to treat himself to a good experience, without having to do the whole...forming a relationship, or dating, or any of that. I have heard and read from sex workers that there can often be an "amateur therapy" component for some clients, as well, who just don't really have much human connection.
But I really don't think that most lonely men turn go this route. I think that a lot of them just suffer, and don't really pursue anything different at all. And as another poster mentioned, sure some women do, too. Certain personality types are more likely to form connection or not. But I just do believe that our culture makes it more normal/acceptable for women to have those more deeply connected friendships, and that there are a lot of men who could really benefit from more bonds with other people. The way I see a lot of men take an approach to romance, too, comes off as this "I need a person or I will have no one, and once we have each other, we should have no one else" thing.
Once a woman is no longer able to conceive her desirability drops a lot naturally as nature intended women to be the caregiver of children and not continuously produce. This is why society especially equality is bad for women. They want the same pay as men but you have to manage your own career and have children at the same time. I would rather not have to work and let the men go out to work.
Now women who decide to pursue corporate ladder during their fertile years is robbing themselves of valuable time. By the time they become some corporate director, they will be childless and not desired. You gave that 15-18 years of your best productive years away just for career and now you have to spend the rest of your life without a mate and especially children. You may find a man who chooses to tag along but as soon he gets a younger woman he's gone because you can't have a kid with him so there's no way to keep him.
Is it worth it? Or you would rather be without a career, have tons of children around you and take care of you. That's how my grandmother lived. Never worked a day in her life.
I think that depends on your experience of "looking after kids."
I have a friend who posts a lot of videos of her adorable little daughter. Lots of cute moments, she is teaching her to play the piano, many lovely family gatherings. In those good times, you're right, there's just nothing like it.
But having raised a couple of kids myself, I can say that what you don't post on social media are all of the numerous times your child gets sick, the volumes of bodily fluids from every possible orifice you have to constantly clean up. The mountains of dishes and laundry that are vastly more than a single person or even a couple will generate. The sorrow when your child has struggles in school, issues with other kids, teenage heartbreaks, messes with drugs, or becomes a young adult who does not want to work or learn to drive. The unspeakable cost of their extracurriculars and medical care and holidays and... That's not even counting if you wind up with a special needs child who magnifies all of that labor and expense many times over AND renders it more or less permanent. And then you get to wonder what becomes of them when you're no longer among the living.
People like to act like it's just...a given...that kids, or at least THEIR kids, would be all joy and no stress. I certainly used to insist that I was raising my sons right and would surely never end up dealing with the things I'm dealing with now. They were good kids! They knew right from wrong! Surely they will be capable adults, surely. And back when my kids were pre-adolescent I would have said that the joy far outweighed the stress and unhappiness and made all the work totally worthwhile. But now that they are young adults and are refusing to be functional human beings despite all my best efforts along the way, somehow I can in hindsight and without emotional muddlement, look at the bigger picture and really wonder if it was worth it. I guess my overall take is that all I ever wanted was for them to be OK, and preferably even happy...if they were at least OK, then any amount of work, expense or sacrifices on my part would have been worthwhile.
But if I had not had kids, I could have put my resources into caring for my parents and saving for my own retirement and elder care needs. Instead, at 44, I am personally still dumping more than I can really afford into helping my sons. We got lucky in an inheritance from my husband's father that MIGHT be able to keep me from dying alone in a Medicaid nursing home one day. Maybe.
Its always about the experience agreed, If my kids had problems life would be much different, at the moment however they do not, and I will dedicate my life to ensuring that continues to the best of my abilities.
Of course people only post the good stuff on social media, - Childless couples are also guilty of this – there is really nothing to envy about the status at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss
Or it happens to your husband and you become his full-time caretaker--or he goes to a nursing home and you're...left alone. There are upsides and downsides to any living arrangement.
I have no desire to put in the 60-80-hour weeks that CPAs work, nor to live out of a suitcase, nor to spend four weeks (let alone four years) not accomplishing anything. Different strokes for different folks.
Just like at my age, I have no regretts about having Kids, - I do not envy the Childless one bit, been there and done that.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 12-13-2023 at 07:43 PM..
Reason: Merged 2:1 to get past the one-line rule.
This is a very selfish reason to get married in my opinion. As a married man with kids, if I was ever incapacitated, I would NEVER burden my family with being a caregiver. Even if I was alone, it is possible to have a plan in place that will to meet your needs as you mentioned, so why insist one should marry? If someone chooses to grow old alone, they should be free to do so without others commenting because at the end of the day, it really isnt any of there business. Marriage should be about love rather than having a hidden agenda.
Yeah, I see heartbreak everyday, at my work, so maybe I can only offer a strategy. (I work at a hospital, btw.)
Being a caregiver is the most exhausting thing a person has to do. Not everyone can do it. Even less do it well. I never insisted anyone ever get married. There's usually only one sex that may have a "hidden agenda" when it comes to marriage. Love may be a component, or not. However, marriage is a business partnership.
Once a woman is no longer able to conceive her desirability drops a lot naturally as nature intended women to be the caregiver of children and not continuously produce. This is why society especially equality is bad for women. They want the same pay as men but you have to manage your own career and have children at the same time. I would rather not have to work and let the men go out to work.
Now women who decide to pursue corporate ladder during their fertile years is robbing themselves of valuable time. By the time they become some corporate director, they will be childless and not desired. You gave that 15-18 years of your best productive years away just for career and now you have to spend the rest of your life without a mate and especially children. You may find a man who chooses to tag along but as soon he gets a younger woman he's gone because you can't have a kid with him so there's no way to keep him.
Is it worth it? Or you would rather be without a career, have tons of children around you and take care of you. That's how my grandmother lived. Never worked a day in her life.
Personal priorities of course run the gamut. But one supposes that to equate a woman's "desirability" with her fertility, and further, to regard individual actualization in one's career as "robbing" of oneself - if one happens to be a woman - is just a tad reductionist. Doesn't this imply that a woman is basically just a uterus? I'm a heterosexual male, and enjoy the company of attractive women... but to reduce women to brood-mares is fatuously boorish, even among my locker-room towel-slapping buddies. I would hope that in the modern world, the number of women who view themselves thus, is small - and declining.
Once a woman is no longer able to conceive her desirability drops a lot naturally as nature intended women to be the caregiver of children and not continuously produce. This is why society especially equality is bad for women. They want the same pay as men but you have to manage your own career and have children at the same time. I would rather not have to work and let the men go out to work.
Now women who decide to pursue corporate ladder during their fertile years is robbing themselves of valuable time. By the time they become some corporate director, they will be childless and not desired. You gave that 15-18 years of your best productive years away just for career and now you have to spend the rest of your life without a mate and especially children. You may find a man who chooses to tag along but as soon he gets a younger woman he's gone because you can't have a kid with him so there's no way to keep him.
Is it worth it? Or you would rather be without a career, have tons of children around you and take care of you. That's how my grandmother lived. Never worked a day in her life.
I just always find this take kind of hilarious. It sounds a lot like, "men do not like women and only need one to make babies." I mean...you may think this if you like of course, but all of male-kind didn't vote for you to represent them.
I had such a vastly better experience dating at 36, tubes tied, career well established, even with the "baggage" of two teenage sons and a crazy ex over my shoulder...compared to when I was young, at my prettiest and most fertile, but broke and not totally competent at being an adult.
I had more guys interested, from a spectrum of age groups, who were more well off, stable and smart and good at being high quality partners. Not one of them was looking to make babies. In the relationship that I chose to nurture and invest in, my second marriage... One of the biggest deciding factors for him, to try to pursue something serious with me, was my inability to become pregnant. And my career has been a major component in the way that our lives work together and our future plans. Both of us are glad that I put a certain amount of focus into my career, and having two kids when I was young didn't prevent that.
I don't think that most men these days will make enough money in their lives to fully support a family, so a woman's career does matter. It sure as hell is going to matter when she's old, because your level of wealth determines when you can retire, your Social Security payments (if that's still a thing) and what your retirement and elder care looks like. Not your kids. Your kids, for all you know, might heck off and never speak to you again. You can't count on them.
The way that you propose necessitates that we trust other people to provide for us, and that they will cherish us and treat us well, and you've got to be incredibly lucky to find that. If you don't, like many people don't, you're on your own, and if you suffer, the whole damn world will say it was your fault for the choices that you made. Accumulating wealth is a pretty safe bet. Having kids absolutely is NOT. It's a high risk gamble.
"because you can't have a kid with him so there's no way to keep him"... That's insane. Tons of men don't bother to stick around even when they do father children. You're essentially saying that women must have babies to trap men who don't want to be there. Bonkers. I have never had a shred of fear that either of my husbands would leave me for a younger woman. And if a man did not want to stay with me, if he did not want to be with me, I would rather that he leave. If I knew that a man was only trying to be with me to get children, I would not want to be with him. I wouldn't care to have a husband who viewed me as livestock. That's pretty disgusting.
Were you unaware that the vast majority of women spend most of our fertile years (in or out of relationships, even good relationships) actively taking steps to prevent pregnancy?
And finally...I would much rather NOT have kids and decide I regret that one day (can always adopt) than HAVE them, and come to regret it for some reason.
Cant say I have ever met a person who thinks like that.
Suppose it depends on your background etc? I was lucky enough to be bright at school especially with the numbers (hated languages) did a good
college degree before completing a PY at a top tier accounting firm. Moved to London (UK) to work with them and quit that before spending four years travelling constantly through 65 countries, before finally settling back here just after my 30th Birthday.
All of that pales in comparision compared to raising kids as far as I am concerned.
Clearly people who have may have done none of the above will envy people who can do this, but i will tell them here and now that looking after kids is a great joy that no amount of money or other pleasures can buy.
The grass is simply not always greener.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste...
And the wealth was largely driven by my astute decision to remain child free (duh).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
