Why do you think guns rights have been restricted in the recent years? (ethics, compared)

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by subsound

There is no exact middle, but if everything agreed on by a committee as the best solution to fit by all parties involved is stupid and arrogant (Compromise) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Nothing can be the 100% correct decision 100% of the time...that's where precedent and challenges, as well as people debate the law as an evolving process.

If a majority of people can't decide how to run the country come to a compromise, then I think the word democracy needs to be redefined (Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I'm sorry, but I'd rather come to a decision that you consider arrogant and stupid through compromise then have terms dictated to me.

"If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost." Aristotle
(http://www.wisdomquotes.com/001661.html - broken link)

i'm not arguing the fact that democracy is still the way to go; all i was doing was noting, clarifying rather, what it actually is. compromise is certainly necessary in many situations. that doesn't make it ideal. as far as we are talking here, we are discussing group 1 that has rights, and group 2 that wants to take those rights away. compromise does not seem to fit into the situation. there are other alternatives, and other realities that some people refuse to face, but a compromise--something that simply takes away some of your rights instead of all of them--is still uncalled for here.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by stycotl

however, netherland gun crimes are probably not NIL as you seem to be suggesting. no driveby shootings? really? no gun violence? hmm. sounds suspect.

We really don't have any drive-by shootings since our 'gangs' have no guns.
Unlike America we have (soccer) hooligans instead of gangs and although these dumb children are willing to bash each other's face in with a tire iron, they don't use guns.
The 1st report of gun use in a Dutch school had to do with an honour killing, which in the past centuries is not a Dutch custom.
And like America we have our nut jobs, but it isn't easy for a Dutch citizen to buy a gun, especially because we can't buy them in the local supermarket like you Americans can.

is there no form of homicide in the netherlands? no stabbings? no bludgeonings? stranglings?

Of course we have, but what does this have to do with gun violence?
The people who are killed by gun violence in The Netherlands are either killed by hardened criminals or depressed and / or suicidal members of the Dutch police force or military who committed suicide ( where in some cases they killed their family 1st).

So in the whole history of The Netherlands we only have 2 incidents where a student used a gun in school, isn't that a whole lot better than America where guns are more easily available?

i'm not sure where you are getting the idea that i think the usa and australia to be exact miniaturizations of the rest of the world.

I simply assumed that since Huckleberry3911948 and you are both Americans you’d agree with Huckleberry.
Besidez, I didn’t drag Australia and criminality into this discussion, but what Australia and America have in common is that they both are in favour of their citizens owning guns and that they both have been former penal colonies.

Originally Posted by subsound

No, majority rule...the will of the people.

Be that as it may, the people aren't always rational.
Heck, this probably is the whole reason why we had to invent laws and the government.

but if the politician doesn't have a similar stance to the issues in fashion to the majority I can't see how they would be elected by a popular vote.

I only have 1 word: Hitler.
Hitler was democratically elected by the German people and they weren't necessarily Nazis at that time.

It is my opinion that only a few individuals are intelligent and reasonable; I would never ever classify the human race as intelligent.
The more people there are in a crowd the less intelligent it becomes, simply because in spite his intelligence man still is a herd animal.

[Greatday]

Private ownership of firearms are part of the fabric of the United States - from its very beginning.

To suggest that private ownership of firearms can be reversed is ludicrous. Not only will it not happen - as a practical matter - it cannot happen. To use a metaphor - the cat is out of the bag.

Firearm sales to private individuals in the United States is rising significantly. Additionally, more and more citizens are now carrying a firearm concealed -

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

We really don't have any drive-by shootings since our 'gangs' have no guns.Unlike America we have (soccer) hooligans instead of gangs and although these dumb children are willing to bash each other's face in with a tire iron, they don't use guns.

Many of the gangs we deal with (i.e. MS13) are not originally from the United States. They are from other countries (such as Mexico) who illegally entered the United States - often with weapons in their possession.

They are involved in a really ugly border drug war, human smuggling, enslavement for prostitution -

They are often equipped with automatic weapons, RPG's, IED's -

[ryanek9freak]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Private ownership of firearms are part of the fabric of the United States - from its very beginning.

To suggest that private ownership of firearms can be reversed is ludicrous. Not only will it not happen - as a practical matter - it cannot happen. To use a metaphor - the cat is out of the bag.

Firearm sales to private individuals in the United States is rising significantly. Additionally, more and more citizens are now carrying a firearm concealed -

Wow, didn't think i'd ever hear you say that.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

Wow, didn't think i'd ever hear you say that.

Say what??

[subsound]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

. I only have 1 word: Hitler.
Hitler was democratically elected by the German people and they weren't necessarily Nazis at that time.

There are many more factors then just leaving it up to the people that determined Hitler getting into power then just voting in elections. Inflation from the punishing Treaty of Versailles was running rampant after WW1...and the politicians did not do squat about it. When you have stupid and useless compared to a decisive plan and overwhelming propaganda, who would you choose? If you think the depression in the US was bad, read up on Germany.

Compared to the options, Democracy is the least likely to go wrong. It's always possible, but the separation of powers does its best to try and prevent that. Much better then dictatorship or communism (pretty similar to me), and I'll stay here with voting as it is.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by subsound

Compared to the options, Democracy is the least likely to go wrong. It's always possible, but the separation of powers does its best to try and prevent that.

Seperation? What seperation?
As long as people are unwilling to acknowledge that having power actually means having responsibility it will go wrong.
Besidez, there is no excuse for fascism.


Originally Posted by Greatday

Private ownership of firearms are part of the fabric of the United States - from its very beginning.

True, without guns Americans could not have taken land from the Indians.

Many of the gangs we deal with (i.e. MS13) are not originally from the United States.

Blame all your problems on non-Americans since America is always innocent, right?
Sadly this behaviour actually is the root of all fascism.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by subsoundSeperation? What seperation?
As long as people are unwilling to acknowledge that having power actually means having responsibility it will go wrong.
Besidez, there is no excuse for fascism.


Originally Posted by Greatday True, without guns Americans could not have taken land from the Indians.Blame all your problems on non-Americans since America is always innocent, right?
Sadly this behaviour actually is the root of all fascism.

we have a seperation of powers in our government (pick up a book and stop watching t.v.)

Exectuive, legislative and judicial, each one can bring to task anything they think does not belong in law, or government.


and without our guns we would not be free from British Tyranny

Again I ask you to pick up a book, or at least a news paper, we have an extreme problem along our southern boarders with the drug and arms traffickers, and gangs pouring into our country. MS13 is an extremely brutal gang that started down in South America, and is now reeking havoc inside many U.S. Cities.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Blame all your problems on non-Americans

Well, there is another of your total fabrications - please - show me where I, or anyone else for that matter, "blame all of our problems" on non Americans -

Please - stop making up stories that are, in actuality, lies