The case against Socialism/Leftism: My opinion (unemployment, illegal, drug)

[Shizzles]

Hi, Right-Wing Extremeist here, and I felt compelled to share why I feel socialism is not right for the US with some basic arguments:

Q): Why do you feel socialism creates moral decline?
A) My personal observations is that people who do not contribute to society eventually become alienated from that society. The contempary argument is that we should help our fellow man, and I agree. However, that help should not be in the form of allowing people to bask in self-destructive choices. People who are dependant eventually become resentful, and lash out.

Q): How do you feel socialism casues societal decline?
A) The human mind, like all animals, is breed for survival. Our evolutionary process developed out of the desire to continue and advance our speices. It is with this foundation that one understands human behavior. In a society where one's needs is 100% taken care for, the human pysche loses the instinctual pressure to make advantageous decisions, both for themselves and for others. Humans naturally seek to make decisions they feel will aid in their survival. The loss of that pressure leads to poor decision making, such as promiscious sex, lack of school preformance, juvinile delinquency, etc...The other shoe to drop is responsiblity. Today, we live in a world where "No one and Everyone is to Blame". IOW, it's never down to the individual for whom is accountable, but "society" and it's various boogeymen/scapegoats to which the problem lies. "Society" at it's core is made up of individuals, each acting, consciously or unconsciously, to their own storyline.

Q): Many social indicators show Europe doing better than the US, to what say you?
A) That depends on how deep you read into the lines. Yes, it is true that Europe seems to lack the same depth of systematic societal problems of the US. However, several things must be taken into consideration:
-Americas social diversity and the sensitive issues that surround it lead to situations unique to the US (ex: the effect of Slavery/Discrimination in forming an Urban underclass, Illegal Immigration, etc)
-Europe has a far older and slower growing popualtion
-Drug Policy
-Mass media's orgin in the US and it's incidary effect on American Youth
Also, it is my opinion that Europe is far less transparent in broadcasting the day-to-day issues of it's popualtion than the US. Names like "Harlem" or "South Central" are gloablly known due to the US's media hegonomy. When the Paris riots broke out in 2005, it was really the first time Europe's underclass and it's problems had made itself known to the world beyond it's respective country.

Q): So you're against charity then?
Not at all. Very few conservatives are against charity (We donate more than Liberals, BTW), we're simply against who administers it (Government) and how it's administered.

Q): How much of this is about "Race"?
While there are some who use the banner of social conservatism to hide prejudice, for the most part, a Bum is a Bum. One thing that many people have picked up on is that whenever Left-leaning social policy is being de-bunked, this canard is often the first one thrown in the ring, which leads to the connection being made. Many on the right have mused that many liberal leaders goad people of color into making bad social decisions to as to increase their dependance on government. If your argument is that socialism helps advance the cuase of ethnic/cultural minorites, then consider this: Why is it that many social indicators for minorities worsened after the Great Society era than before? One thing to consider is the millions of Black/Latino children aborted in this country. If people such as the NAACP were so keen on securing eqaul power and resources for their consituants, then why turn a blind eye to this obvious degregation of their communites? Even with an African-American president, is the plight if people of color really changed? Wealth distrubution under the banner of "Civil Rights" doesn't work. Many African nations tried the same deal, and have failed. Wealth knows no color, and if you punish the people who create it, you will fail.

Q): You're all a bunch of hateful, jealous fogeys out to spoil the fun
While some in the religous set may seek to use the power of the law to mold America into their moral vision, just as many of us on the right seek to overturn laws that limit individuals personal freedom. However, "Rights" and "Responsibiltes" are a box set. One cannot exist w/o the other. Many on the left seem to want it both ways. Eventually, this leads to societal anarchy...


Q)Why do you fear government
History has shown, over and over and over again, that the more power is transfered from the individual to the collective, abuse occurs. Anyone who has studied group dynamics will tell you that the more groupthink occurs, the more problems occur...

[jetgraphics]

Reasons to oppose Socialism

#1 - Socialism is another word for piracy. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Or the quaint TANSTAAFL - “There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch”. Anything a Socialist “freely” gives was taken from someone else.

#2 - Socialists are slavers. If you don’t own yourself, who DOES own you?

#3 - Socialists are thieves. If you don’t own the fruits of your labor, who DOES own yours?

#4 - Socialists are land stealing scoundrels. If you don’t absolutely own the land beneath your feet, who does own it, and HOW did they get ownership of it?

Voluntary charity is a blessing.
Compulsory charity is a curse.

Governments are instituted among men to secure rights to life, liberty and property - not deny rights to life, liberty and property.

SOCIALISM - A political and economic theory advocating collective ownership of the means of production and control of distribution. It is based upon the belief that all, while contributing to the good of the community, are equally entitled to the care and protection which the community can provide.
--- Webster's dictionary

In short, you are OBLIGATED to work for the benefit of others, because you are owned by the collective. That's a polite way of saying SLAVERY to the COLLECTIVE.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL

[stan4]

Some great Margaret Thatcher quotes on socialism:

"Let our children grow tall and some taller than others if they have it in them to do so."

"If your only opportunity is to be equal then it is not opportunity."

"Object to merit and distinction, and you're setting your face against quality, independence, originality, genius against all the richness and variety of life."
"When you hold back the successful, you penalize those who need help."

"Let me give you my vision: A man's right to work as he will, to spend what he earns, to own property, to have the state as servant and not as master."

"Good Conservatives always pay their bills. And on time. Not like the Socialists who run up other people's bills."

"Socialists have always spent much of their time seeking new titles for their beliefs, because the old versions so quickly become outdated and discredited."

"If you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything at any time, and you would achieve nothing."
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]"Europe was created by history. America was created by philosophy."[/SIZE]

"There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

"I do not know anyone who has got to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but should get you pretty near."

"Disciplining yourself to do what you know is right and importance, although difficult, is the highroad to pride, self-esteem, and personal satisfaction."

"People think that at the top there isn't much room. They tend to think of it as an Everest. My message is that there is tons of room at the top."

"The Labour Party believes in turning workers against owners; we believe in turning workers into owners."

"Look at a day when you are supremely satisfied at the end. It's not a day when you lounge around doing nothing; it's when you've had everything to do, and you've done it."

"Marxists get up early to further their cause. We must get up even earlier to defend our freedom."

----

My opinion: Socialism caters to the lowest common denominator. We're better than that.

[FunkyMonk]

There are lots of different forms of socialism, some are bad, some are not so bad.

There are many different forms of democracy, some are bad, some are not so bad.

There are lots of different forms of Monarchy....... I could keep going.

It isn't about the system itself. It is about how it is used, and it's dynamics with the country it is used in. The country itself, its infrastructure, its people, its productivity, what drives its economy, and other things like this are much more significant than the system itself I think.

Free market capitalism isn't really a bad system, in some ways it is really good. But recently we have seen examples of how it can be very destructive. There are lots and lots of complex variables to be considered instead of just saying "socialism bad" and "democracy good", it's not so simple.

In the future, as globalization rolls forward and things evolve. We are going to see completely new systems emerge in which countries work together like never before. If you don't like socialism, you are NOT going to like a lot of the changing coming this decade.

These debates are like, sooooo 20th century

[Tricky D]

LoL I see no difference between posting 'Arbeit macht frei'* over the entrances of concentration camps and president Dubya, after 9/11, telling the American people that only consumerism will set them free.

Unlike other presidents who ask sacrifices of their people after having launched a war, Dubya wanted Americans to go shopping instead.
He actually believed that consumption is the sole economic engine of growth.
Then again, he was heavily backed by Enron ( who in 2001 went bankrupt for stretching the boundaries of virtual economy)

*"Arbeit macht frei" is a German phrase meaning "work brings freedom" or "work shall set you free/will free you" or "work liberates" and, literally in English, "work makes (one) free". The slogan is known for being placed at the entrances to a number of Nazi concentration camps.
Source: Arbeit macht frei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[stan4]

Yes. Bush telling us to go shopping is just like a concentration camp.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by stan4

Yes. Bush telling us to go shopping is just like a concentration camp.

It is; some people owe so much money they might as well live in a concentration camp where they've to work 24/7 to be able to pay of their loans (and the interest).

BTW how much is America's national debt now?

[stan4]

Some people bought a bunch of crap they didn't need and/or couldn't afford and I don't feel sorry for them one bit. Hardly the same as being rounded up and killed en masse for no good reason.

[Bjorn]

Ive lived most of my life in a semi-socialist country: Sweden. If you dont think socialism works, you need to look at Sweden. That being said, I think it has played out its role; its no longer needed, Sweden is now moving more and more towards free market capitalism, and that is a good thing.

When I was a kid the government owned the postal system, the radio, TV, railroad system, the schools, hospitals, one major bank and insurance company. School was free all the way up to and including universities, all roads were free, medicare was free, unemployment compensation was high, prisoner treatment very good (rehabilitation instead of punishment) and labor unions had a lot of power. It was a society where everyone was taken care of, but you could still be industrious and run companies and compete in an open market. It worked very well; Sweden has a lot of smart and competitive people, and has always been among the top technology countries and with excellent living standards.

But people got lazy. It was way too easy to just cash out on all benefits without doing anything. Combine that with the Swedish mentality of being the world's bad concious, accepting more refugees from war zones per capita than any other country in Europe, and you got a recipie for disaster. I guess the current trend towards more Swedish capitalism is a way to try and solve this. I dont live there anymore so I cant tell.

Personally I dont benefit from socialism. Anyone who is above average wont. I gues it all comes down to the question: Would you sacrifice some of your income so you can feel good and know that the weak are automatically taken care of? I used to say yes, but now I say no, because the weak dont need handouts, they need incentives. There is no more depressing feeling than dependence and unability to provide for oneself. The way out of that is by self empowerment. Self empowerment is prohibited in socialism.

[stan4]

Good post, Bjorn.

I think Sweden's socialism and many programs worked a lot b/c of it's homogeneous population and culture. We have no such luck here, however.

I think it's interesting that you pose this question about the weak. What exactly do we need the weak for? How do they contribute or strengthen our society? I can't think of a single thing, but I've been awake for many hours...

I think it is the duty of every individual to contribute to society in a meaningful way (and that does not mean more babies to suckle off the welfare teat). And it is the duty of those who are more well-off NOT to take care of them; rather, they should help create opportunities for advancement to a respectable, contributing place in society.

But who's gonna do that if they can just sit there and get a handout?