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Old 04-01-2009, 05:47 AM
1,238 posts, read 1,413,676 times
Reputation: 284


Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
What are you talking about?
Everybodies free in this country. But if you excercise your freedom by doing nothing I imagine thats what you deserve.
Hell, to be honest the most free people I know are those who choose to pick up cans & live under bridges, the most restricted people I know are wealthy folks so tied up in building wealth they dont have what I'd consider a life. I'm very content to be in the middle & simply work for a living and have a life as well.

On the road where we are headed everyone who work will work twice as hard for half as much so we can feed the useless.
Another way we defy nature & evolution. In nature when something is too stupid to feed itself it dies, in nature when an environment cant support a population any more that population moves on, or it dies. Its called natural selection & it works wonderfully.
You literally just advocated to let all of the people that had less of an opportunity for a life than you did to just die. All because you don't want to pay a few extra dollars in taxes. Its pretty bad in these times people can be so cruel to those that are less fortunate, I mean how many people do you think got laid off in the past 2 or 3 years? Just let them waste away? You disgust me.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:01 AM
Location: Connecticut
1,462 posts, read 4,866,588 times
Reputation: 1668
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Do you think our government should provide handouts to those who cannot work, do not make enough to support themselves and their families, or simply choose not to work? What about to those who have been laid off?

Should the government reward women for repeatedly having children as a means of getting more benefits...or do we have an obligation to provide the benefits for the sake of the kids?

I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts. Under what circumstances do you think handouts are acceptable, if any? And what type of assistance should be provided?
This is a loaded and touchy subject I am sure with most of us right now. I use to be a Town Manager years ago in Northern Maine. The area I worked in had been declared poverty stricken probably back in the 1960's or 70's..not sure. There were lots of people who worked in the woods cutting pulp, on farms farming potatoes, in potato houses cutting seed potato or they traveled to jobs miles away. Then there were people who couldn't work, wouldn't work or were to drunk to work. Because it was a small town, everyone knew everyone elses business so I knew pretty much as a Town Manager what was going on. There were also plenty of unwed Mom's on welfare. The Town, for years would give some of these folks a "town order" which would allow them to go to the store an purchase groceries and kept a pretty tight reign on what they bought.

When this was going on, I had not been made the Town Manager as yet. I began to notice that some of these people on Welfare were embarassed, ashamed and did want to work. I talked with the Town Selectmen and started a "Work for Welfare" program. I found things for these people to do around town...cutting grass, maintaining the cemeteries, picking up trash and keeping the town streets clean, helping seniors with rides to the grocery store, hauling in stove wood for seniors. I also worked with the State to get the town some money, federal funding to employ people out of work and started the very first ever Summer Rec Program for kids. I made jobs for these people and they LOVED being able to work.

On the flip side of this...yes I do think some people take advantage of whatever they can get and whenever they can get it. They normally have been raised in a welfare environment with parents who won't work and this is all they know. I did put just such a person to work for a whole fall and winter putting up snowfence...he didn't last long but did get a taste of earning his "keep".

Then there are people who have no choice but to go on disability and I have to tell you...the Social Security folks just are not always on top of who should get the help and who shouldn't. I know this for a fact because when my 2nd husband, a Viet Nam Vet with a heart condition, had a massive heart attack, we went to Social Security for help with disability. His heart was severely damaged and he was not so much as to do stairs let alone work. We had doctors papers, the works. Social Security was rude to us, and turned us down for help of any kind. My husband died 3 months later and I marched right back in to Social Security and blasted them. I made sure that they knew he had died. When it came time for his Social Security to be doled out it went to his ex wife who had been married to him the longest and had a minor child by him. This was ok by me...I believe that kids need to be taken care of and if this helped his ex take care of his daughter..it was fine with me.

So...,this is a two sided subject with pros and cons so BIG that I am not sure exactly where I stand. I do know Social Security needs a big shake up within the working environment...the system is only as good as the people who drive it.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:50 AM
Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
727 posts, read 1,890,758 times
Reputation: 403
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
So we should simply let them repeatedly reproduce (the only thing they seem to be good at) and use their children as meal tickets? And just be like "it's OK...we'll take care of it" for the rest of their lives?

How is that fair to the rest of us?
EX-actly!!! I'd rather pay my tax money to getting these people educated than to pay a lifetime welfare recipient!!
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post

Let me put it this way. When I worked for the Feds I often had people come across my desk who had screwed around in HS, dropped out, got drugged up and now they can't hold a job to save their life. Now, in their late 30's to early 50's they've grown up and want retraining. Rather than take accountability for their life, go to Wal Mart and work their way up they want the feds to send them to college or a vocational school... And I say, 'no'. People have to have some accountability for their lives. I refused these people for those who needed the schooling due to uinforseen incidents in their lives. The person who had a massive stroke and can no longer do the work they used to, or the construction worked that a load of brincks fell on...
Why would you rather have these people be uneducated and spend a lifetime on welfare?! The thing is you have people in America who fear an educated poor person. I think that America would be holding these people on welfare accountably....if you don't want skills or miss classes or get bad grades.....then you should be kicked off of welfare.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:53 AM
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,391,501 times
Reputation: 55562
not to worry welfare about to go thru a megachange.
this will be a multi thrust assault on the system.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:59 AM
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,411,683 times
Reputation: 2583
Originally Posted by nickeldude View Post
You literally just advocated to let all of the people that had less of an opportunity for a life than you did to just die. All because you don't want to pay a few extra dollars in taxes. Its pretty bad in these times people can be so cruel to those that are less fortunate, I mean how many people do you think got laid off in the past 2 or 3 years? Just let them waste away? You disgust me.
You dont know what you are talking about. Nobody had less opportunity than me. I went to public school, graduated & got a job. Nothing more complex than that, no problems because I couldn't go to college or anything. Everyone has about equal opportunity here, if theres nothing for you in one place move to where there is.
I AM laid off & have been for months, however I'm not a burden because I'v paid my dues & collecting unemployment for a few months doesn't touch the ammount paid in my behalf. Getting laif off indicates having a job, thats not the people we are discussing. However, if those folks getting laid off could have back the money taken from them to help others I bet they'd be happy to trade it for their unemployment check.

The fact is if welfare is needed to feed people who wont work then we dont care. If we cared we wouldn't need to be forced into doing it.
What is cruel is taxing people who are barely getting by to feed those who dont even try.
Nobody will wither away & die. Theres will always be soup kitchens & such, because folks do care. Needy people dont need a free check, they need food perhaps & a place to sleep. Neither of which is my problem but I contribute constantly to local soup kitchens & pantries, because I care.

Ever think of how many dollars are wasted before one gets to a needy person thru welfare? Supporting welfare is a great way to make believe you care while letting someone else pay the freight.

If people who expect others to be responsible for themselves disgust you, then I truly hope I make you barf.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:32 AM
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,761,940 times
Reputation: 24863
Tin Knocker made my point.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:33 AM
36,499 posts, read 30,833,646 times
Reputation: 32753
Also, I'm opposed to the government paying for a high school dropout to attend college.
Well I would be screwed then. I dropped out my senior yr. because my school would not let me leave to work during the time I didnt have classes. I had to work to support my family. Years later after my husband had died and I was laid off I was able to received grants for college, as well as working 2 part time jobs, to earn my BS inorder to give myself and kids a better life. If it had not been for the grants, I would probably be on food stamps working at micky Ds and on section 8 housing right now instead of an indpendant, hard working, tax paying, home owning, conservative, productive citizen.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:40 AM
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,936,034 times
Reputation: 36644
There are a number of people on this board who have a two-step approach to solving social problems:

1.) You are completely incapable of seeing the big picture, you lack the knowledge or education to evaluate anything, and you are in the habit of using a few anecdotal examples to prove a position.

2) Unable to reach a rational conclusion, you rely on your emotions and gut feelings to persuade you. Your emotion and gut feeling, motivated by total selfishmess, is to not care at all what happens to anybody else, as long as you get to grab and keep all you can get for yourself, since you are smarter than most people and work harder than anybody else. and therefore more deserving.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:57 AM
Location: Philaburbia
41,948 posts, read 75,153,734 times
Reputation: 66884
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Disability criteria needs to be tightened.
Funny. And I'm wondering how the criteria can get any tighter. To go through those kinds of hoops -- and then to try to live on the almost poverty-level "benefits" -- is not exactly a bright horizon.

2. If an unmarried woman receiving any type of welfare has already had two children, she should be required to be sterilized as a condition of any additional benefits. Another option would be to simply start taking kids away if parents are making no effort to provide for them.
Alllllllllll kinds of wrong. Forced sterilization is one of those slippery slopes we just don't want to get near. Because once you start sterilizing women on welfare, who's next? Maybe women who've had x number of children, no matter how well they're provided for? Or women who let their kids ride bikes without a helmet? What happens when a woman moves off welfare, or gets married, and wants to have another child? And why sterilize women and not men? Who decides what "effort" is reasonable in trying to provide for their children?

5. There needs to be more investigation to ensure that people receiving benefits are not working under the table. If they are, they need to be punished severely.
What do you want to do? Shoot them?

Originally Posted by MarqueseGilmore View Post
It cost less for the government to train/school welfare recipients than a welfare recipient being on welfare for a lifetime
That's lovely, but can our economy support all these retrained workers?

Originally Posted by Sweetlady71 View Post
and to the poster who noticed food stamp users buyen snack foods and driven suv;s....i soooo agree!! thats about wrong!!!!
Is the guy who got laid off and receives food stamps to support his family supposed to sell his paid-off SUV just to satisfy the judgemental public?
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:26 PM
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,987 posts, read 21,921,886 times
Reputation: 7007
Any person who loses his job and as a result has to resort to food stamps needs to unload his car with the payments. No big deal to drive a PAID FOR car until the finances are better.

Many many yrs ago I had two cars and when things got rough I sold the 2nd car to tide things over.

Later when I saved enough money would buy a 2nd car again...mainly for back up on my job.

Slight story;

Years back while in the grocery store a VERY WELL DRESSED woman standing in front of me had a county food voucher for her groceries. I was curious why such a elegent dressed woman would need a food voucher. Quickly followed her into the parking lot where she entered a near new Ford Thunderbird with Michagan plates and two children inside.

Okay...children need food. The woman must be making car payments I would think. Why not get rid of the car and the payments till things smooth over.

Naw...why do that...the car is more important to have since food stamps etc are FREE.

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