California contemplates ultimate reform - no welfare (minimum wage, illegal aliens, drug)

[SCGranny]

I don't know how it is now, but CA used to pay for 4 year college educations for in-state residents. It's how my half-brother got his engineering degree after the Army. The Army paid his and his family's living expenses, and the State paid for college tuition and books.

Maybe that 10% now going to community colleges for K-12 is training teachers?

The latest spear-rattling in the Conspiracy-Theory camps is that social services will be eliminated for residents but that illegal immigrants are still 'entitled'. Don't know if that is true or not - only references are of course their own befuddled 'news services' - but an interesting side supposition.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by SCGranny

I don't know how it is now, but CA used to pay for 4 year college educations for in-state residents..

You didn't even have to be a state resident. I had a classmate from New York City who came out for the freebie. But I think he had an aunt or something there, so he might have finagled something. I had out-of-state transcripts, but I enrolleld with no questions asked, although I was 24 y-o.. All that ended with the governorship of Ronald Reagan.

[misplaced1]

I don't know the stats on outcomes but welfare to work programs help people with education and finding employment. I could be wrong here but it seems to me that might be considered a reinvestment into the economy and tax revenue.

Cutting free housing and food and medical to those who work under the table and don't pay taxes and/or send money out of the country instead of keep it here might be a good start.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by misplaced1

I don't know the stats on outcomes but welfare to work programs help people with education and finding employment. I could be wrong here but it seems to me that might be considered a reinvestment into the economy and tax revenue.

Cutting free housing and food and medical to those who work under the table and don't pay taxes and/or send money out of the country instead of keep it here might be a good start.

Welfare-to-work programs have, in general, failed to come anywhere near the desired or even the announced results. The workless poor simply become the working poor, and continue to draw state benefits. In many cases, the worker barely recoups the cost of going to work, including transportation, child care, health insurance copays, and uniforms. Even where successful, they become the most marginally employed of all workers, and are the first to lose their jobs in economic downturns. They often remain unwilling workers, disrupting the workplace and eroding the morale of their coworkers. Much of the cost of the program is paid directly to large corporations who agree to take them on as trainees, in a relationship similar to that of foster children.

[Captain Worley]

Originally Posted by Ceece

Bus tickets out of town are cheaper.

I'm not entirely joking because my own mother remembers seeing ad's on busses in Michigan back in the 40's telling people that California was where it was at and encouraging people to relocate for better 'opportunities'.

Good advice 60 years later...

[cpg35223]

When we lived out in California, I couldn't believe the largesse of the state in its various programs. I think this should prove to the starry-eyed idealists in LaLaLand and SanFran that even the richest state in the Union simply cannot afford to build Utopia. By ratcheting up taxes to pay for this blue sky thinking, California has created a mass exodus of professionals and businesses from the state. Heck, on my street alone in the South, three professional couples have moved here from LA or Sacramento in the past three years, all because they just couldn't afford to pay the taxes anymore and enjoy a reasonable quality of life.

[subsound]

You give most of the people just enough to get by, even if it's not easy...they will complain and be jealous of the haves but they'll use all their energy to stay in their rut.

You take away it all, and they will come riot and take what they need for sustenance.

You give too much, it will be more inviting then the lowest paid jobs so people will stay on it...and if you tax the haves to do it, they will flee to other parts of the country where they aren't taxed to death.

It's not really scientific, but from my own eyes wandering the pages of the news, economic reports, and social-economic studies...in general it's what happens. You see countries with big welfare programs providing food for the poor that have big problems with unrest and riots when food prices went through the roof. There was a good study about a towns near the Texas/Oklahoma border (outside an expected range to pack up and move), where you see lower rates of welfare and unemployment in Texas that has the less generous rates. One can always point to the huge growth in California and addition of massive taxes, which people been escaping when they can. Pretty much every family I know that lived in CA left for expense, crime, and congestion (always the top 3 reasons)...a few high school friends moved there for college and then to get professional work experience, and after a few years got the heck out.

Will welfare go away? Not likely or there will be social unrest...but it's a careful balancing act. I am happy there is support for those who are down on their luck or have disabilities, and I am unhappy when those who refuse to work take advantage of it (like addicts).

[Parrotrosie]

Where are all the Hollywood folks who are always talking the talk? Let them walk the walk and put THEIR money where their mouths are and bail out their own stinking mess of a State??!!

It would be a drop in the bucket for them!!!

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by Parrotrosie

Where are all the Hollywood folks who are always talking the talk? Let them walk the walk and put THEIR money where their mouths are and bail out their own stinking mess of a State??!!

It would be a drop in the bucket for them!!!

It would be less than a drop in the bucket for California. If 100 top stars ponied up for a million each, that 100-million would be 0.4% of the state deficit. One dollar out of 250. It sure is fun to blow other people's money, though, isn't it?

[Noahma]

Good idea if you ask me.

I remember a quote that about sums up my point of view in this.

"I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."


-- Benjamin Franklin