California contemplates ultimate reform - no welfare (employment, generation, healthcare)

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by miu

I think that all people need to be productive and earn their own way. . . . . I've always enjoyed working and paying my own way. .

Well, if that's what you think, and if that's what you enjoy, I guess that is the way it has to be. Tens of millions of people grudgingly endure massive traffic jams every morning, at the cost of billions of barrels of imported oil, filling the air with toxic pollutants, to suit your whim.

[miu]

Originally Posted by jtur88

Well, if that's what you think, and if that's what you enjoy, I guess that is the way it has to be. Tens of millions of people grudgingly endure massive traffic jams every morning, at the cost of billions of barrels of imported oil, filling the air with toxic pollutants, to suit your whim.

Actually, if more people would live in the areas where they work, they could walk, bicycle or use public transportation to get to work. And I know that while I love to work, I sure as heck don't want to be taxed to support 99 lazy ass slobs doing nothing productive all day and night long. And what are those 99 people supposed to be doing while they are not working? Collecting welfare? Geting fat? Having babies? And how much allowance do they deserve in their non-working state?

Maybe the biggest problem is that there are way too many humans on this planet. We need to stop reproducing ASAP.

[fractured_kidult]

I just think the welfare system as it is currently is a joke...they dont monitor what people buy....they dont ask for reciepts when it comes to food stamps or cash benefits...Seriously...soda, candy, chips, beer, tabacco? these things should not be allowed to be purchased with food stamps. We need to tighten up the program around the world...if you abuse it you lose it. Make people be more responsible, if they "lose" receits or there are things on there that shouldnt be...take it away... I think it is rediculas that I see people using food stamps wearing clothes I couldnt afford and driving cars that cost $30,000 with Rims and sound systems-a-blastin...If your poor...your poor and should have to down grade the car atlest to a minivan or something...welfare is seen as a luxury and should be seen as an emergancy only thing...

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by fracturedman

I just think the welfare system as it is currently is a joke...they dont monitor what people buy....they dont ask for reciepts when it comes to food stamps or cash benefits...Seriously...soda, candy, chips, beer, tabacco? these things should not be allowed to be purchased with food stamps. We need to tighten up the program around the world...if you abuse it you lose it. Make people be more responsible, if they "lose" receits or there are things on there that shouldnt be...take it away... I think it is rediculas that I see people using food stamps wearing clothes I couldnt afford and driving cars that cost $30,000 with Rims and sound systems-a-blastin...If your poor...your poor and should have to down grade the car atlest to a minivan or something...welfare is seen as a luxury and should be seen as an emergancy only thing...

Food stamps and cash assistance are on a debit card. It like any other debit card lists what you bought. You cannot buy pet food, tabacco, or alchol on foodstamps. I don't see any reason for not letting people buy candy and soda. Nobody spends all their foodstamps on junk food.

As for what you OWN when you go on food stamps, why should anyone be forced to sell it? If you own a nice car, paid for or affordable, why should you be forced to sell it for a junker that will cost constantly to run? Or if people are dressed very nicely, maybe they HAD the clothes or they buy second hand. Food stamps are given based on income, not what you wear or drive. People who own very good cars and wear nice clothes lose jobs and income too. I've recieved food stamps. I'm sure that NO ONE who is used to really nice stuff would see them as a luxury with the convoluted process of spelling out your life required to apply.

To qualify, you have to not have certain types of things like stocks. Household goods, not having much resale value, don't count.

I'm sure those people will be on foodstamps only as long as they have to also. For some where income is unsteady, the amount rises and falls based on MONTHLY reporting of income. (assuming the form wasn't lost or misdelivered in the office and there is nothing because it was lost)

Those who get them longer term are often disabled, or poor. Many many people recieve foodstamps who work. Yes, there are abuses, but to blanket trash people based on appearence or what they drive assuming things not researched is not a dicussion.

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I'm not so sure that this would be an effective way to make up the $24.3 billion. They may well incur $24.3 billion in additional costs for police, national guard, fire, prison, looting cleanup, etc. I think we all know what would happen...

One way bus tickets to Washington, DC would solve the problem.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by miu

Actually, if more people would live in the areas where they work, they could walk, bicycle or use public transportation to get to work. And I know that while I love to work, I sure as heck don't want to be taxed to support 99 lazy ass slobs doing nothing productive all day and night long. And what are those 99 people supposed to be doing while they are not working? Collecting welfare? Geting fat? Having babies? And how much allowance do they deserve in their non-working state?

Maybe the biggest problem is that there are way too many humans on this planet. We need to stop reproducing ASAP.

If more people were as smart as you are, there would be no problems, right? Well, that ain't gonna happen, and you do not contribute to any problem solving by simply whining about "If only people would . . . like I do".

Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where perfect, beautiful,, flawless people can take all they can from the bounty, and refuse to give any back to try to make the condition of the rest of the country any better.

The thing that makes America so great, is all the successful 'haves',, with high intelligence, good educational opportunities, and a fair amount of luck, calling everybody else lazy ass slobs. I'm so proud of you and all other Americans like you, dedicating so much of your skills and talents to making this a more perfect union.

You see the rest of the country as a bunch of unwashed, who are only useful if they are chained to the decks of a ship and whipped to row harder, so there is more treasure for you to plunder at your high-paid steady job. And then eliminate ASAP any surplus oarsmen who are not needed.

[MyPOV]

Currently in Cali, parents are allow up to 60 months of being on cash assistance while their children are elig until they are 18.....in certain circumstances, when a child is already receiving aid, the next child that is born would not be elig for cash assistance but for food stamps and medical only.....my suggestion is to make the welfare system like most states, and that is to limit each household to 5 years maximun on aid, of course we have to exempt the disables.....

in regards to illegal aliens on aid, i have a big problem with this issue when their income is calculated.... a US citizen with both parents and 2 children makes 1800 a month applies for food stamps and will be considered over income....however, when the same type of household applies, where the parents are undocumented, the children are eligible....this is how california calculate this type of family.....with the undocumented parents, the 1800 would then be divided by 2 b/c half of the income are the undocumented and the other half belongs to the children, thus the 2 children has an income of 900, which would then make them elig for foodstamps for 2......

US family of 4 with income 1800..................................... not eligible
Undoc parents with 2 citizen children with income 1800.......eligible

What a shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fractured_kidult]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

Food stamps and cash assistance are on a debit card. It like any other debit card lists what you bought. You cannot buy pet food, tabacco, or alchol on foodstamps. I don't see any reason for not letting people buy candy and soda. Nobody spends all their foodstamps on junk food.

As for what you OWN when you go on food stamps, why should anyone be forced to sell it? If you own a nice car, paid for or affordable, why should you be forced to sell it for a junker that will cost constantly to run? Or if people are dressed very nicely, maybe they HAD the clothes or they buy second hand. Food stamps are given based on income, not what you wear or drive. People who own very good cars and wear nice clothes lose jobs and income too. I've recieved food stamps. I'm sure that NO ONE who is used to really nice stuff would see them as a luxury with the convoluted process of spelling out your life required to apply.

To qualify, you have to not have certain types of things like stocks. Household goods, not having much resale value, don't count.

I'm sure those people will be on foodstamps only as long as they have to also. For some where income is unsteady, the amount rises and falls based on MONTHLY reporting of income. (assuming the form wasn't lost or misdelivered in the office and there is nothing because it was lost)

Those who get them longer term are often disabled, or poor. Many many people recieve foodstamps who work. Yes, there are abuses, but to blanket trash people based on appearence or what they drive assuming things not researched is not a dicussion.

Im sorry if you have been on welfare for 2+ years and are driving an escalade or other nice SUVs you need to sell the car for like a Safari or something. The money from such a transaction would be more than enough to pay for things that my tax dollars go to. I see people buying junk food all the time come the first of the month with foodstamps. Im sorry but people on food stamps should not be eating better than me, a person with two jobs to pay bills and survive. Welfare is a last resort, but that is the way the world is going. Where the hardworking suffer and the lazy enjoy life and mooch of my tax dollars.

[brokensky]

Originally Posted by jtur88

If more people were as smart as you are, there would be no problems, right? Well, that ain't gonna happen, and you do not contribute to any problem solving by simply whining about "If only people would . . . like I do".

Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where perfect, beautiful,, flawless people can take all they can from the bounty, and refuse to give any back to try to make the condition of the rest of the country any better.

The thing that makes America so great, is all the successful 'haves',, with high intelligence, good educational opportunities, and a fair amount of luck, calling everybody else lazy ass slobs. I'm so proud of you and all other Americans like you, dedicating so much of your skills and talents to making this a more perfect union.

You see the rest of the country as a bunch of unwashed, who are only useful if they are chained to the decks of a ship and whipped to row harder, so there is more treasure for you to plunder at your high-paid steady job. And then eliminate ASAP any surplus oarsmen who are not needed.

I have read all your posts on this thread and am fascinated by your writing style as well as your philosophy.

But I am not sure what you are advocating. I got the insults, sarcasm and facetious statements. But I don't quite understand what you are proposing.

What are you proposing?

Are you saying we should go back to living off the land? Live off the grid and under the radar? I would like to hear what your ideal society would be, cause I can't quite connect the dots in between the rhetoric.

No one is to have a profession? We are all to live in a commune and share veggies we grow in our gardens? Grow sheep and make our own yarn and knit our sweaters? Make lye soap and bathe in the creek? You want a non-industrialized world? No monetary system - just barter my corn for your hand-knitted socks? Electrical plants pollute so . . . go back to killing whales for blubber and oil?

What is it that we elitist Americans are supposed to be doing other than going to work and posting on City Data?

[jtur88]

Anifani, let me try to make it easy. Does America have problems? Yes. Can they be solved by whining that "people should have done better"? What's your reply?

Your solution is to send every American a memo, saying "it's your own fault".

No? That's not your solution? Then what is? How do we get health care for 40-million people, besides just calling them stupid rednecks, or ****** or ******** or ***** or *******?? What do you propose to make life better for the American people that we've already got, warts and all?