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Woodstock is restricted to my videos and my iPOD. I can switch it off any time I want. Guess others can too.
It's not of any use for practical life
Hah--good one
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Originally Posted by robertjohnson
Concerning the underlined above. In Africa alone twenty million men women and children die each year because of the ban on DDT that you refer to. Even IF it was a choice between those Africans and our eagles would you choose the birds? But tragically that isn't even the case. Back in the day DDT was grossly over used. And it got into places that it never would have if properly used. And eagle eggs became thin. Instead of rational use it was totally baned. Resulting in those malarial deaths. Unnecessary deaths. Could this be another form of birth control on the sly? A post-natal abortion. Or more likely one of those pesky unintended consequences. This does fit in with the Woodstock value of 'let's forget about today until tomorrow'.
Whoops.
Sorry about that.
But you see we meant no harm.
Exemptions have been allowed.
However, Africa is a big continent. What I have read indicates that using DDT works better in some regions than others. South Africa returned to using DDT since 2000. If the developing countries want to use DDT, perhaps the UN or World Health Organization can be persuaded to pursue this.
But I am not sure it will happen anytime soon.
Africa: UN Seeks Ban DDT Pesticide, And Fight Malaria (http://allafrica.com/stories/200905080301.html - broken link) The new projects underline the determination of the international community to combat malaria while realising a low, indeed zero DDT world," said Achim Steiner, head of UNEP.
The statement said that there was also growing concern that some mosquitoes were gaining resistance to DDT
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Originally Posted by Pandamonium
The Boomer's are neither the Alpha nor the Omega. It drives me up a wall. I don't mean that as a personal attack, I mean as another poster stated: I have been listening to this for years.
Neither are the Boomers the Great Satan.
The generation before them lived it--and the generation before that one did, too. Then your generation. We're in a continuum.
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Funny thing I learned, did you know that a school district could go to a neighborhood with both black and white kids and take out a complete section of white kids and bus them 20 miles to an all white school? But it looked good on paper.
Yup. I did it every day for two years--except I, a white, went to an inner city school that was mostly black. I loved that school, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Denver finally ended busing in the 90's.
We can exchange all sorts of cherry-picked facts and statistics.
I imagine your mind will not be changed.
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But my favorite case is Lau v Nichols 1974 is the least that you can do for ESL students and do you know that it is exactly what has happened? The very least. And this too, was on your watch. The ball was in your court.
So when the ball was in "our" court, it was a bad thing that this 1974 Supreme Court ruling took place?
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We still have racial profiling, there is still a DWB problem. Tell me about how far we have come in civil rights and then tell me about the effort and money in inner-city schools. Pay no attention to the racial population in jails and prisons. Because every time I hear this story it is that this was all taken care of in the 60’s and is now either non-existent or minimized. Tell me more about diversity but don’t read anything on the international front. Tell me, please, what you learned.
I've learned that transformation takes more than feel-good festivals.
I really believe that if you want change, you do have to BE the change rather than just throw vitriol on an internet messageboard. I spent my own time in inner city schools--and then volunteered it.
Who exactly is minimizing it, saying it is all taken care of? Can you give me a cite for that? Would it be an actual person of substance, or is it someone like Barbara Bush?
I surely do not minimize today's social problems, and I have some semblance of understanding of what happened in the past.
However, if he were alive today, I think Scott Joplin, while he still might have to worry about DWB, would be having a different sort of career than he did back in the turn of the century.
Of course there has been plenty of self-absorbed, self-congratulatory Boomer BS.
All that music that so many of us wax nostalgic about, well, now Baba O' Reilly sells Toyotas on TV, few Gen Xers have any idea who Grover Washington is, and I think the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame is a bit silly.
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Originally Posted by aus10
Let's see... Technically I am a Baby Boomer. In 1969 I was 7 years old. I wish I had been there for the rain and the mud. And the FANTASTIC music.
Today instead of hippies doing drugs and listening to crappy music in the rain and mud, we have grunged out teens with multiple piercings and tattoo's all over their body's doing meth or crack listening to crappy rap music and hooking up, all the while posting their pics on facebook for the world to see. And you know what.. if that's what you enjoy... go for it. But to call another generation a waste is hypocritical at best. Remember... you WILL be this age some day, and you will be thought of as a waste too by the younger generation. It's inevitable. When you grow up and can look at things from an adult perspective, then we'll see how you think....
I remember friends from school wanting me to come along to a protest. I'd ask what is it for and they'd say they did'nt know, it was just an excuse to get rowdy and call the police pigs. Most never believed in all that stuff. Later many became the Yuppies of the 1980s with Beamers, the big American Dream house and dumped the Left for the right. Racial equality ??? Mostly it's the laws that give that appearance. Attitudes have in many areas never changed. The Woodstock era is only a blip in history. Now we have a world according to Monsanto with left & right supporting them. Yeah, real progress.
So you think it was a passing fad for youth in the upper middle class range and higher. And they did come down off the mountain and become Lawyers and High School Principals.
Just as people state much of the music of that time was bilge, and only the good stuff survived, so too I think you can break down the cultural, political, social elements of that time into smaller components. There is a big "Green" push nowadays with recycling garbage, hybrid cars, etc. The tough economy has people cooking for themselves more, "Organic" foods popular. Buying second hand clothing, making outfits go another season, etc....
If I can stand up for the music, remember that 40 years of technology has come to pass, you can now have computer generated and controlled elements, can add instruments and effects at the push of a button, staging, lighting for live performances, big screen T.V. monitors, etc...etc... Back then you had do trip over the power chords, have amps feedback on you, more acoustic instruments where used that went out of tune at the slightest weather change.
You had to bang away on those drums and cymbals yourself, there was more harmony singing, which took training, talent, and timing. It was not simple nor easy.
Here is the link to the Youtube "Woodstock 1969" page, just too many selections to single out one. First up is Michael Shrieve's legendary drum solo on Santana's "Soul Sacrifice"...If you do not already know, on Youtube videos at the bottom of the video box to the right of the timers the grey symbols HD is high def and the grey symbol to the right of that will give you full screen view, clicking the red X or the "ESC" button on your keyboard gets you out of full screen...
You don't have to read all the posts her to get the idea that good old propaganda was, and is still, king in our country. The sixties were hyped by TV even as the events of that decade were unfolding, the entire "hippie" image is one of dancing, acid filled fools, twirling around in circles as the music plays. Who in the hell believes that the majority of American youth could have possibly afforded a life style that allowed such abandonment as it's daily fare?
If we were to see the draft come back we'd see a resurgence in anti war demonstrations, that's what drove the sixties protests, the knowledge that uncle sugar wants YOU, yeah, YOU, the guy sitting on the sidelines, come on down and suit up for duty in the middle east. You admire the military, but from afar. You want the terrorist's to be quelled, but not by your "Johnny", let that black kid or the hispanic kid do the deed, you've got plans for your kid, right?
Are you starting to get the picture? Vietnam was not a failure, it was a wild success when defined from that vantage point of war supported business, hell, Mcdonald Douglas, General Dynamics, Boeing, GM, body bag manufacturers, and plenty of other business' were grown on the back of that war.
I'm sick and tired of the TV specials that pretend to define the sixties as a time of playing, dancing and drugs in general. Most folk's I knew in that era were having children and going to work, anybody in their late thirties or early forties are the children born in that time frame, but TV will tell you that we all were drugged out and dancing in circles. Yes the awakening of American youth was something to behold, yes, they were questioning the political construct, how dare they ask their government for proof of the validity of reasons for war. Maybe the present generation doesn't understand the fact that todays world is a reflection not of the boomer generation, but of their losses, government and big business prevailed, the system was intact, ready for the next generation to fight and die for the corporate led government.
Veteran's, were, as they are now, treated indifferently, very few ever came home to anything they hadn't heard right there in the jungles, they were conscripts for the most part, draftees, rounded up because they didn't go to college and get a deferrment, yes, that's right, if you went to school you could avoid the draft. There is now a push to get a new respect for the military ventures around the world, re-creating the Vietnam era into some kind of hero filled war of patriotic duty, it was go to war, or go to jail, period. Sadly, Vietnam took a hell of a lot of great human beings from their families and communities and wasted them for the profits of war. Turn off your TV, and stop listening to the lies.
Actually, if they are so influential and really world-changing, Bin Laden should come out of his cave in tears to meet Bono or Sheryl Crow singing at the foothills of the Tora Bora
Or, all this peace and love should melt the hearts of African dictators or the Burmese Junta, or one "we are the world" concert should force all Israelis/Palestinians to cry, kiss each other and collectively dump their arms cache (except their teddy bears and balloons) into the Jordan River.
These guys are just talkers. It sounds nice on the tv, until the circuits go jammed or there's a massive power cut which shakes the viewer on to the real world - groceries, school, bills, indifferent wife/husband, car loans and mortgages
Besides, everyone knows they get "paid" for that peace talk, right? It's money and they are not sharing it with their devoted fans.
If you're asking me, I like the way you guys pluck those guitars and beat those drums........ nobody wants your ideology baloney. Thanks, but no thanks. It's not as bearable as the music
I agree that so-called hippies were a tiny number of the total population of that cohort. Got all the media attention.
As for "selling out," what was supposed to happen? How were people going to make a living, support their kids, etc.?
I was too blue collar to ever want to be a hippie. I saw nothing wrong with cars that ran well, being able to live alone, and I saw a whole lot of it as a way for men to get laid a lot. Women were still supposed to bake crunchy bread and having little blond children hanging off their breast and walk barefoot while having sex with this one or that one. I never bought into it, and I don't think a lot of people did. Those that did got all the attention.
I never saw how one was supposed to make a living in that world, or anything coming from it. A number of people were playing away from their middle-class lives, and when the fun was over, went back to law school or whatever. The people who got screwed were the blue-collar people who bought it wholesale, the ones who never were headed for a middle-class life, but disdained it and ended up unable to live it. Then, of course, there were the drug/alcohol casualities. Most people dropped in, did their drugs/alcohol, and went on to their adult lives. But those who were vulnerable fell off the map into addiction and disaster. I do think the general environment helped that to happen- not social pressure to get high (it is, after all, genuinely enjoyable for most) but the easy access and social convivality of it.
I think there were repressions (and laws) that absolutely needed to loosen up. But people don't seem to do so well with that much freedom.
I do think things have evened out some, at least I see this in my younger co-workers. Having not been raised in repression, they seem to view partnering and sex and gay relationships in a pretty balanced way, while men my own age look like panting lechers.
For the record, I was blue-collar, a little young for "the 60s," took a lot of LSD for two years in a spriritual search, did a little of other stuff being curious, didn't take a drink until I was 30 (after two hideous experiments at age 14) and never wanted "middle-class success," although have ended up financially stable with a professional credential, working by the hour. I give a lot of my money to groups that I favor and hope to give my time in the future. I am not sure what "selling out" would mean except making the same ethical and personal errors that have always existed.
Just as people state much of the music of that time was bilge, and only the good stuff survived, so too I think you can break down the cultural, political, social elements of that time into smaller components. There is a big "Green" push nowadays with recycling garbage, hybrid cars, etc. The tough economy has people cooking for themselves more, "Organic" foods popular. Buying second hand clothing, making outfits go another season, etc....
I take it you've never visited all the Green Living or all Debates threads. Have'nt you heard that eco causes, etc are all a left wing conspiracy hoax and that only right-wing ideas can save mankind???
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Originally Posted by ShouldIMoveOrStayPut...?
If I can stand up for the music, remember that 40 years of technology has come to pass, you can now have computer generated and controlled elements, can add instruments and effects at the push of a button, staging, lighting for live performances, big screen T.V. monitors, etc...etc... Back then you had do trip over the power chords, have amps feedback on you, more acoustic instruments where used that went out of tune at the slightest weather change.
You had to bang away on those drums and cymbals yourself, there was more harmony singing, which took training, talent, and timing. It was not simple nor easy.
On this point I will say that there was more musical talent then , than there is today. For me I see little talent when it comes to music. Promoters look for a jock or a babe type and computers and synthesizers can do the rest to make most of them sound good.
You certainly don't, cause if you would have read, you would have noted, this thread is about the 40th anniversary of Woodstock, not the immitation wannabe in 99, the 30th anniversary. The original Woodstock of 1969, was held in Bethel New York, on Yasgur's farm. Nothing like what happened in 99 happened there. The people of Bethel came out and overwhelmingly pitched in when what started out as a 3 day party for 10,000 people turned into almost half a million people. Still there was no looting, raping, burning, people of the 60's and 70's, we didn't do that. For those 3 days that whole area of New York state actually came together and pitched in to give to those "hippies" food, water and whatever else they needed because the promoters didn't forsee the overwhelming publicity and response of people across the USA.
The real travesty is that now, the place where Woodstock was held is a Museum, charging for a tour, just opened last year, so the people that attended it would be rolling over in their later years to go back and see that the site of their "Peace Rally" Music Love In" was now making money for the "MAN"
Sinsativ is right. It pains me to think of all the efforts that went down to make this event happen, and where it sits now.
On that subject, there is something that has been bothering me for some time and this is the thread for it.
Max Yasgur was/is a hero to that generation. He stuck his neck out, his finances out, and he honestly felt he was doing right by providing his land for the Woodstock gathering. Maybe two years after the festival ended his neighbors lined up to see him in court regarding the damage they claimed was done to their property as a result of this event. He was forced to sell his property, and paid out close to $50,000 in claims. In 1973 he died of a massive heart attack. He was just 53 years old.
If anyone was in the position to be needing help, it was Max Yasgur. In 1969 he lent a helping hand and was a hero to the counter culture people. If only he could have gotten a helping hand in return. I could never track down any stories where people tried to help him financially with litigation costs. He tried to make things right with the people of Bethel, New York, and he in many eyes were considered public enemy number one.
This situation bothered me when I read his obituary. It still bothers me.
"A half million people can get together and have three days of nothing BUT fun and music--" Max Yasgur talking to the masses.
Last edited by DOUBLE H; 07-05-2009 at 01:08 PM..
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