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Old 07-05-2009, 05:20 PM
 
14 posts, read 131,817 times
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if I were to reach into my neighbor's pocket and take his money, I would be arrested. Yet, when government does this, it's deemed good for the country.

Regardless of it being good or not, does the views of the group trump individual property rights?

Where do you draw the line? What if the government obligates your neighbor to pay money that he does not have? More homes are lost do to excessive school & property taxes than mortgage defaults. Is it fair?

Is it fair when a senior who lis living on a fixed income loses her home?

How can you be a part of a social contract if you have no choice? How can you afford it, if you have no money?
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:27 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,639,313 times
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In a democracy, you can rally the populace to your views, promote a candidate who holds those views, and vote out elected officials who do not espouse those views.

The power to tax is part of the Constitution. The extent to which taxes are levied is a political question, and it is up to the voters.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 87,003,003 times
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93% of the American people wanted us to start a multi-trillion dollar war in Iraq. If you were one of them, that's what the government took the money out of your pocket for.
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:13 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 3,053,331 times
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'if I were to reach into my neighbor's pocket and take his money, I would be arrested. Yet, when government does this, it's deemed good for the country'

REPLY: Look, in order for a Country to run right, it takes money. And that money has to come from somewhere. If you are privildged enough to live in the USA, then you should pay taxes in order to pay for Government workers and the many segments of Government which makes the Country run that you live in. It should be FAIR taxation mind you . It is stealing when you take from your neighbor without him knowing...it is not stealing if our Government takes from you in the form of tax money as long as its based on objective standards which all other citizens have to abide by too. Do i think we are over taxed ?? Probably. But is there a different Country youd rather live in than the U.S. with your present personal financial situation ? I think very very few would answer that NO. And if someone does, then they should chase that dream and leave . Its not the financial situation of this country that troubles me so much as it is the impending anarchy that is increasing due to godlessness , immorality, and narcissism.....everyone doing what THEY think is 'right' in their own mind ..and of course...having a massive uncontrolled immoral Media that encourages and promotes things like adultery, sexual hedonism, and other forms of 'fulfillment' to our young and old , which are all just a pack of lies . If a nation doesnt have God as its leader, then down that nation will go.
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:20 PM
 
1,332 posts, read 1,990,509 times
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Default Don't take the topic off track...

I am referring to the previous posts.

This topic focused on property taxes - So let's stick to that.

And the truth is they are mostly driven up by schools having to spend money on people that are avoiding taxes - like 4 or 5 illegal immigrant families living in a single family house, not paying their share of property taxes - Yet their children are the biggest drain on the schools. There's no argument against that reality. (About all you can do is try steering the thread away from the topic, as certain groups on this board seem to do when they have no real answers).

How about the fact that our school kids are certainly well versed on "diversity" and "tolerance", but don't seem too well schooled on math and science.

Oh Poo!..I'm going to be called homophobic and whatever the other nonsense "phobias" are that have become simple "cop-out" labels to honest discussion.

You know, discussions like maybe morality issues should be left in the hands of parents and older siblings...And, (hold on for this one) letting the kids develop their own opinions of what is right or wrong. After all, most kids are pretty much capable of reasoning before their teens. (Based on their real life experiences - They see what's going on around them. They see what people are really like).

The issue of property tax is something that has to be discussed more honestly in this country. The politicians are too cowardly or corrupted.

And as far as the statement (made earlier) that this is a democracy, and you simply put up a candidate with your views...I would guess whoever made that statment was never involved in local politics. It does'nt happen...And the quality of people that we have in government and running for office is testament to that. There are too many tricks and manuevers used by the local political bosses to squash any dissent.
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 87,003,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migee View Post

This topic focused on property taxes - So let's stick to that.
OK, I can work with that. It shouldn't have been titled "dilemma", then, because there is no dilemma.

Property is the ONLY thing in this country that ought to be taxed. Because it is the only form of wealth that was scooped up free by whoever got there first. All other forms of wealth were earned, and the owners of that wealth have a more rightful claim to possession of it.

Originally, all the people in this country collectively owned all the property. Why should just a few have, with no liability or responsibility of any kind, possession of what used to quite properly belong to all of us?

If you own property, and you can't or won't pay the tax on it, sell it to somebody who can and will. Not a moral dilemma at all.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-05-2009 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:50 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,060,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treetorn View Post
if I were to reach into my neighbor's pocket and take his money, I would be arrested. Yet, when government does this, it's deemed good for the country.

What an utterly ridiculous and childish analogy!

Stealing from your neighbor has been deemed a crime through the legislative process. The argument that taxation is in any way shape or form the equivalent is stupendously ludicrous.

"Regardless of it being good or not, does the views of the group trump individual property rights?"

The "views" of the group? Legislating taxation aren't views, they are laws. As for the question, do the desires and needs of the majority trump the "rights" of individuals, of course they do. We live in a collective society, not a society of free agent individuals. While the majority numerated a set of individual rights which are beyond the sanctions of government, the Constitution still holds the "views" of the majority to be the will of the nation.

"What if the government obligates your neighbor to pay money that he does not have?'

The "government" is not some alien entity, the government is you and I and as such the government does not rule by imperial dicta. If and when taxation becomes odious, one can not only change or abolish the tax, one can remove those government officials and representatives who make such taxes odious in the first place.

"More homes are lost do to excessive school & property taxes than mortgage defaults. Is it fair?"

I would be very interested in reading any supporting citations that you might have substantiating that claim.

"Is it fair when a senior who lis living on a fixed income loses her home?"

Fair, what is fair. Without specific information it is rather difficult to make anything but the most sweeping of conjectural opinion.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:02 PM
 
1,332 posts, read 1,990,509 times
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Property is the ONLY thing in this country that ought to be taxed. Because it is the only form of wealth that was scooped up free by whoever got there first. All other forms of wealth were earned, and the owners of that wealth have a more rightful claim to possession of it.

.[/quote]

I can't agree with you on that. The people being hurt by property taxes are those that started with nothing, and put everything into owning their own piece of property. Their own small space on earth.

We are not talking about the Mayflower decendants - They have no problem with paying their taxes - Their accountants and lawyers make sure of that.

We're talking about many first or second generation European Americans, Hispanics, African Americans and even some Native Americans (many whose families have left the reservations generations ago).

It's ridiculous. In some areas people are paying taxes of $9,000 to $12,000 per year in property taxes, on houses that may have a value of $200,000 to $300,000 (which is not much these days, looking at incomes).

But, these people are the ones that may be living on lower incomes or fixed incomes - Retirees that simply want to live their lives in the homes that they worked so hard to get. And it is important to mention that they paid their fair share of income taxes throughout their lives.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:43 AM
 
191 posts, read 457,932 times
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Where are you getting the information that more homes are lost because of overtaxation than mortgage default? If you are going to make an extremely unbelievable claim like that, then you should cite a source. And if you do cite a source I will most eloquently eat my words.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:34 AM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,462,850 times
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Being part of society, any society, means deep concessions on the part of an individual. For some reason (in the US) only money is discussed, but society is forcing us to change many of our ways of life in order to be part of it.
Just 2 points to think about:
1) The US is demanding less from its citizens then most other countries on the planet.
2) A much greater sacrifice is when your country demands to risk your life for it. When US declared war in Iraq, we were all asked to pay huge amounts of $. What about those folks who fiercely oppose the war? Why do they have to give away their hard earned money? During the Vietnam war, the draft forced millions into uniforms. Some of them disagreed with the war, yet they were forced to fight in jungles and swamps thousands of miles from home. Many didn't come back. Others remained maimed for life.
What about these concessions? Aren't they greater then a few $?
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