Blacks are black until they are successful, then they are white (racist, Obama)

[teejuris]

It's not only whites or blacks that say Tiger Woods isn't black; Tiger Woods himself has said he isn't black repeatedly! What's so sad about Tiger Woods is he appears to be ashamed of or minimize the African American "portion" of himself, which comes from his father; the same father he loved and cherished so much and to whom he credits his success. As a result, I don't believe Tiger Woods, or any other person that overtly distances himself/herself from his/her African American heritage, should be deemed a role model in the black community, especially not for African American children; children that already experience substantial adversity and have a difficult time identifying role models. And, I don't view Tiger Woods as African American, as he wishes, and am, therefore, still awaiting an African American to accomplish/achieve or exceed what Tiger Woods has in golf.

[uptown_urbanist]

Could it be that some white people are pointing out that Obama has parents of different races not because they have racist views of trying to somehow justify his success because of his white mother, but because they instead are trying to overcome the outdated concept of the one-drop rule? Obama's parents are different races - there's nothing racist about pointing that out. For many people that's a good thing, as it's symbolic of the artificial boundaries of skin color being broken down.

Yes, there are racist people (and they're not all white). Yes, this country still has problems to overcome. But Obama's victory is evidence that race today is not in itself the barrier that it was a generation ago. The white people who really do believe in the one-drop rule (or who do point out Obama's white mother because of racist reasons) would be the same ones who wouldn't vote for Obama because of his black father. Obviously they are in the minority.

And really, Bill O'Reilly? I don't think anyone can say that he speaks for most, or even many, white people. He's a guy who rants about ridiculous things on TV for the purpose of high ratings.

[jlhct]

Originally Posted by Annie3

Very interesting thread. I spend a lot of time thinking about race relations in the US. However, I think the OP needs to realize that the bigoted diatribes of certain white people - be they pundits on tv, columnists, or your local neighborhood racist - do not represent the thinking of most or all white people. In fact, it is my opinion that the white people who are not constantly talking about what race someone is or is not are the people he should be paying attention to. Those people (and I am including me in that category) don't feel the need to go around spouting off about how white (or whatever other ethnicity) someone is, because it does not matter in the grander scheme of things. In the same way that when I hear racist diatribes against 'whitey' from someone who is black, I do not then paint every black person with that same paintbrush.

On a side note, as someone who has a (minor) background in Anthropology, I find it fascinating to look at people and try to figure out what their (varied) ancestry might be, regardless of skin color. No, I am not one of those people who goes around asking "What are you?" because that would be rude. But in my workplace I see people of various backgrounds and I love talking to them and finding out that the person someone else might assume is 'just another black man', is actually a Moroccan immigrant, etc.

And finally, the one drop rule no longer exists - well, I suppose it does in the minds of the members of various white supremacist groups. I have a friend who is 1/4 black. He is blond and has blue eyes and full lips. In the summer he tans like crazy. He is adopted and grew up Jewish. Is he black? White? Jewish? No, he's just my friend Jon. For most of us, that's the way it is.

I think this is one of those things that in theory is the right idea but doesn't work. You hear the other side of it all the time. Someone can see a black person display rude behavior in a store and immediately place that behavior on the entire black race.

You see it here on C-D all the time, and I have no doubt that the same posters that display this type of behavior do it in public as well.

Maybe that is why some people try to "strip the black away" when a black person becomes successful. Success doesn't allow the mass grouping of people and ideas to occur.

[jtur88]

An interesting fact about Barack Obama. He does not act or behave or comport himself or talk or think like an African American, because he never, as a child, lived in a household where there was an African American member of the family..

Obama may be considered out first black president, but he is also our 44th white president. He is no more black than white, and blackness has no more of a claim to him than whiteness.

[dvcgal]

White people have trash too! We just choose not to idolize our trash. Now let me explain.
People who live in trailers, have no teeth, dip, and speak improper English, are not given their own tv shows and/or record deals, and made to be superstars~this excludes Brittney Spears! Now, take African Americans, guys like Fiddy Cent ~who spell their name wrong, women like Lil Kim who cuss and talk about being the baddest b$tch, are idolized and money is thrown at them for being this way, setting the trend for African Americans. Not saying that all African Americans are this way, but this is what is portrayed via the media. So, when men like Tiger Woods come along or women like Michelle Obama are interviewed, it totally throws off what people in general have come to expect. Not that it should be this way, but it is this way, unless and until.....
Unless or until African Americans demand a change in what is shown and/or portrayed. Oprah, for instance, refuses to interview rappers because of the images and negativity most rappers portray.

[jlhct]

Originally Posted by dvcgal

White people have trash too! We just choose not to idolize our trash. Now let me explain.
People who live in trailers, have no teeth, dip, and speak improper English, are not given their own tv shows and/or record deals, and made to be superstars~this excludes Brittney Spears! Now, take African Americans, guys like Fiddy Cent ~who spell their name wrong, women like Lil Kim who cuss and talk about being the baddest b$tch, are idolized and money is thrown at them for being this way, setting the trend for African Americans. Not saying that all African Americans are this way, but this is what is portrayed via the media. So, when men like Tiger Woods come along or women like Michelle Obama are interviewed, it totally throws off what people in general have come to expect. Not that it should be this way, but it is this way, unless and until.....
Unless or until African Americans demand a change in what is shown and/or portrayed. Oprah, for instance, refuses to interview rappers because of the images and negativity most rappers portray.

I don't think this is a change only needed in the African-American media outlets. The question id' have to ask is why does the media (in a general sense - all media outlets) continue to portray these stereotypes? I'm sure it's not only black people tuning in to keep the revenue flowing.

I think the ownus has to be on individuals and whether or not they are willing to think for themselves or believe everything they see on TV.

[tropolis]

Originally Posted by jtur88

An interesting fact about Barack Obama. He does not act or behave or comport himself or talk or think like an African American, because he never, as a child, lived in a household where there was an African American member of the family..

Obama may be considered out first black president, but he is also our 44th white president. He is no more black than white, and blackness has no more of a claim to him than whiteness.

Your missing the point.

The point is, if Obama was another bum on the street and not Obama, he would be labeled as black. Obama himself says he identifies himself as a black man, because he was treated like he was black, even though he's mixed like me.

When he becomes successful, whites back off the black angle they ran with when he was a nobody, and take away from his blackness when he is popular and in the limelight. Why is he black when he is a nobody, and not black, no more black then white etc, like you state when he's a presidential contender.

I say again, if Obama was another bum on the street, he would be labeled black.

His whiteness is only emphasized when he became somebody.

[pba]

Think about how many times racial or sexual traits are pointed out by the media and talked about until they are all blue in the face.

• Sotamayor - potentially the first Latino supreme court justice
• Obama - the first black president
• NBA - two years ago they had their first woman referee, then last year they got their first black woman referree
• NFL - owners meet next month to decide to allow first black owner
• Politics - Michael Steele is the first black leader of the republican national committee
• News reports - how many times have you heard, 'A young African-American man robbed a liquor store today.'....but then if it's a white person all you hear is, 'a young man robbed a liquor store today.'

Why is it relevant to the discussion to mention race for any of those people mentioned above? We cant' simply find the most qualified person for the job? The more we point out our differences the easier it is for people to assume that one group is better than another and it just furthers the stereotypes.

The first black woman becomes a referee in the NBA and it draws your attention because somehow you feel she's at a disadvantage because she's a black woman and she will have harder time being a good referee as compared to a white man. It's sad but this is exactly what the result is due to how much we continue to talk about race. It's all our faults because if we didn't tune into it then it wouldn't be a story and maybe we could finally put all the race crap behind us.

The fact that the NBA added a referee is NOT a story and never should be regardless of who got the job. Pointing out race in stories like that is just ridiculous because it assumes she's not naturally qualified for the job but instead will have to work twice as hard to be equally as good.

Does Obama act black? Talk black? Does he think like a black person? That assumes that all black people are alike which is pathetic to say the least.

Oh, by the way, I'm an American that happens to be black. I'm not an African-American.....oh, and I'm a Republican also.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by tropolis

Your missing the point.
.

No, I'm making a new one. Obama could not have patterned himself after an African American role model in his household, because there weren't any. Which left him free to become his own man, and not what an African American is expected to be or is inclined to be.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by tropolis

Would anyone call Obama white if he was a drug dealer on the street?

It's interesting. I myself am mixed(part white/black). In the USA though, I'm considered black by whites because of the 1 drop rule and because I'm of no significance to whites, just a low key regular citizen, not a celeb, rich or anything like that.

What I'm interested in is why until someone with a background like myself, who is labeled black there entire life black to white people, until they become successful or popular.

Then all of a sudden you're considered white, or not really black.

This happens countless times.

Obama, Tiger Woods are perfect examples. People say they arn't black, even though before they were somebody, whites labeled them as black until they were somebody.

Essentially whites try to strip away your blackness when you become somebody, and make sure to label you as black if you are just a regular person.

Anecdotally I disagree. No whites in the U.S. I know call any of your examples white. Agreed, by the 1 drop rule.

"Blackness" from the non-black perspective comes in at least two forms in the U.S.

One is the physical characteristics. The other is the "ghetto thing". I.e. Ebonics, Gang Banger clothes, "Funky" behavior, etc.

Of course the one drop rule ensures that even non-african looking blacks in America will be called black, if the fact is made known.

And well, "the ghetto thing" applies pretty much to other groups at times too. Consider the term, "Whigger".

Bottom line about "the Ghetto Thing" is that non-blacks in general find the ebonics, crotch grabbing, all it's other attributes... essentially traits of "losers" except for the occasional Rap Star or other celebrity who's celebrity is based on that form of blackness. Even so, they may be willing to watch it on screen, but wouldn't want it in thier living room.

And even without the "Ghetto Thing" in evidence, african physical traits do, in many non-blacks set off a response that is negative. Not saying it's right or wrong... but it just *is* a fact.

Jewish folks suffer a similar fate in some respects. There's "Ethnic Jewish" and "Of Jewish Religion".

In any event, in my travels the more likely distinction will be between "black folks" and "n*ggers". Of course that's a slippery slope. If a black guy comes into work and goes along with the usual office politics...then "black person"... the minute he bucks the party line..."one of those people".

Same thing happens to any identifiable outsider. If a mentally ill person comes into work... goes along with everything, never gets "uppity" then..."he's just a person working through some issues"... oppose something (even if he's right) and he'll become... "that crazy nut person". Even worse... if you are rich... you are just "eccentric"... if you are poor... "crazy". In essence, if you are making people money... they'll overlook it. LOL!

Trust me, blacks have no corner on the market for derogatory terminolgy that will be used in an ad hominem attack at the drop of a hat.

That's perhaps the first step in getting past some of this stuff. Blacks need to stop thinking they have a corner on the market for being discriminated against.

Granted thier physical traits and often behaviors make them easier to pick out in a crowd, making the application of prejudice quicker... but blacks are by no means the only group to have this particular problem to contend with.

(Just ask the gays over in California, LOL!)