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The only hate monster is he who would force his philosophy and thought upon another. That applies to both the religious and non-religious in equal measure. And you know, come to think of it, I've never had the local church members on my doorstep with pitchforks and torches... but I digress...
If you present a philosophy, it is my choice. But if you force a philosophy, then we have a problem. You have a new enemy and so do I.
I think the 'hate monster' that you refer to (especially since you mention human rights groups) are simply people who cherish free agency. Is that about the size of it? It sure reads that way to me.
The problems with Religious folks in politics is that they want to force their views on everyone else.
I've heard the argument, "But the atheists want to force their immorality down our throats" before. It doesn't pan out. What most people who want religion out of politics, is a choice. We aren't trying to force you to get abortions, or smoke pot, or fornicate. We want you to have a choice to do those things, but if you want to go to church every Sunday, thats your business. If you want to live a life of strict religious beliefs, thats ok with me. Just don't try and make me live by your strict religious beliefs as well.
The problems with Religious folks in politics is that they want to force their views on everyone else.
I've heard the argument, "But the atheists want to force their immorality down our throats" before. It doesn't pan out. What most people who want religion out of politics, is a choice. We aren't trying to force you to get abortions, or smoke pot, or fornicate. We want you to have a choice to do those things, but if you want to go to church every Sunday, thats your business. If you want to live a life of strict religious beliefs, thats ok with me. Just don't try and make me live by your strict religious beliefs as well.
So maybe we need to take religion out of politics. The people who have the most hate in their hearts are the same ones that claim to have religion and faith in their heart. Think of when Gay bashing was escalating a few years back, most of the attackers where highly religious.
Look at most wars, they are because of religion. Now, this does not mean that all religions are bad. Infact some are quite peaceful and accepting of others no matter what lifestyle you live.
Very interesting. If you put "in God we trust" on the currency, and I say I don't believe in God, that is me trying to force my belief down your throat.
If you want the ten commandments in the courthouse vestibule, and I point out that it violates separation, and you put it there anyway, that is me trying to force something down your throat.
No atheist would ever say a word to you, if you stopped trying to shove your religion down everyone's throats.
Has any stranger or casual acquaintance ever walked up to you and said "Have you rejected God yet?"
I have no formal religion and I couldn’t care less about what anyone does. The only thing I would like to force down anyone's throat is respect of free agency. As for coins, put a bluebird or something on coins--they would be more interesting. You can post the communist manifesto on the courthouse steps, it doesn't matter to me. You can build a cathedral to the great Beach Ball God on the town square. You can open the first church of satan on the next block. You can have an atheist grand convention on the local park. You can have an orgy in the local Motel Six. Whatever floats your boat is fine by me. I don't care... as long as long as each individual is given the free choice as to which banner he or she will sail under... or not sail under. And as long as each individual’s right to choose is respected.
And to answer the question: I've never had a stranger walk up to me and ask me anything, other than possibly street directions. But on a more general note, I feel just as bombarded by atheist rhetoric as I do religious rhetoric. Everyone these days is a dime store rhetorician. Frankly, I wish they would all just shut up and let people decided what they want to believe or not believe for themselves. We are all big boys and girls and we don't need a silly **s group of cheerleaders from either side waving their pom-poms in our faces.
The problems with Religious folks in politics is that they want to force their views on everyone else.
We can agree on that point. I'm with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
I've heard the argument, "But the atheists want to force their immorality down our throats" before. It doesn't pan out.
I can agree with that to the extent that there are zealots on both sides. And in my view, forcing everyone into a religion is little different that forcing everyone to not have a religion. There are those atheists who are just as militant about there views as there are religious fanatics. Then there are the rest of us who are expected to tolerate it and we are growing weary of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
What most people who want religion out of politics, is a choice. We aren't trying to force you to get abortions, or smoke pot, or fornicate. We want you to have a choice to do those things, but if you want to go to church every Sunday, thats your business. If you want to live a life of strict religious beliefs, thats ok with me. Just don't try and make me live by your strict religious beliefs as well.
See, this is what I call a reasonable attitude. But, again, not everyone has this reasonable attitude. I see just as many would-be subjugators on one side as I do on the other. That's where I have to jump off the boat. I don't care what your religion is or isn't. I will respect it, just as long as my philosophies are respected.
I can agree with that to the extent that there are zealots on both sides. And in my view, forcing everyone into a religion is little different that forcing everyone to not have a religion. There are those atheists who are just as militant about there views as there are religious fanatics. Then there are the rest of us who are expected to tolerate it and we are growing weary of it.
See, this is what I call a reasonable attitude. But, again, not everyone has this reasonable attitude. I see just as many would-be subjugators on one side as I do on the other. That's where I have to jump off the boat. I don't care what your religion is or isn't. I will respect it, just as long as my philosophies are respected.
I know a lot of atheists, and I can't say as I've known one that tries and force people not to believe in Christ.
The first one I meet, a girl a long time ago, didn't want to talk to me about it at all. I finally got her talking, and I was intrigued by her beliefs, as she was interested in mine. To be honest, she was one of the most morally grounded people I had ever meet at the time. It was weird, I had lots of friends who were "Christians" that did whatever they wanted, all the time.
I don't doubt there are people out there who want to abolish all religion, but they aren't in the government. When you have politicians saying they don't believe in evolution, just to get votes, you know who is involved in politics.
1. Celebrate the differences, openly acknowledge them and stop playing the denial game.
2. Tolerate only tolerance. This concept is difficult but basically it means true celebration of differences without assigning blame, victimhood, etc.
3. Work to separate that which is primal and that which is an evolved human.
4. Accept unfairness as a necessary evil since the world is not a constant trial of equality in absolute terms.
5. Fight the only good fight and skip the rest.
6. Recogize that all is not serious and that life is to be enjoyed, thus spending more time on one's individual atonement rather than grieving over the past.
7. Allow others to vent, allow yourself to vent, and then learn to tell others and yourself to shut the heck up when it is time.
Sorry if it's a little on the edge but ya can't fault me for speaking with clarity even though I realize not all will openly agree and then there are those who are incapable of rationalizing these points. And please add, delete, modify or categorically dispense of the list of suggestions if you so choose.
You can't do #2 and #7 at the same time.
That's why I posted in a different thread that "intolerance will not be tolerated."
What in your opinion would allow for a successful call for peace, all out cease fire and tolerance? This is a serious question, and I dont want to hear people say it isnt possible...how about some actual ideas. Is there something(s) out there that could make all religions get along, all races get along, and all other distigushing social labels coexist?
Basically, what if anything could stop the hate machine?
Maybe if we stop classifying people by race, sexual preference, lifestyle, and religion it could help.
We CAN coexist, but...it is wrong to ask for tolerance toward things which are immoral and wrong . It might sound like a nobel thing, but let us remember : Tolerance = I dont care what you do even if its wrong so dont care what i do either. Love = Approaching the other person out of true concern in a nice way, and telling/showing them that they are on the wrong path. We are our 'Brothers Keeper' type of concern.
Tolerance is only asked for things which are wrong...you never hear anyone asking for tolerance to the behavior of Mother Theresa do you (?). The tolerance philosophy of today is a twist which moves America further down the slippery slope of moral degradation.
What in your opinion would allow for a successful call for peace, all out cease fire and tolerance? This is a serious question, and I dont want to hear people say it isnt possible...how about some actual ideas. Is there something(s) out there that could make all religions get along, all races get along, and all other distigushing social labels coexist?
Basically, what if anything could stop the hate machine?
Maybe if we stop classifying people by race, sexual preference, lifestyle, and religion it could help.
One word: Forgiveness.
Without it, there will never be any progress toward peace.
What in your opinion would allow for a successful call for peace, all out cease fire and tolerance? This is a serious question, and I dont want to hear people say it isnt possible...how about some actual ideas. Is there something(s) out there that could make all religions get along, all races get along, and all other distigushing social labels coexist?
Basically, what if anything could stop the hate machine?
Maybe if we stop classifying people by race, sexual preference, lifestyle, and religion it could help.
There is One that can do all that, but do you have faith? The day is coming where the Kingdom of God will reign on this earth. And it is not too far off in the distant future.
The thing is mankind has to work for it. Your words do have kindness in them and not hate "Maybe if we stop classifying people by race, sexual preference, lifestyle, and religion it could help." that is a good start.
But, there is so much hatred and despair in the world. Mostly caused by governments who seek to capitalize on it's citizens and other countries. It's that "power thing".
Just look at the health care issue. All the chanting at town hall meetings. The fury of some divide this country even more.
I could tell you one thing that would get the worlds attention, a asteroid the size of Texas with a dead eye on the planet earth. You would see the whole world change in a hurry. But, that's not going to happen, the asteroid. But, if it did, it would definitely get the people of this planet's attention.
My observation is that this has not been a very peaceful or tolerant discussion so far. I used to drive by a home on a little street, and saw a large sign out, in front of a house, in the yard. It read "WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER!" I used to imagine living next door and putting out my own sign that read "WHAT WAS THE QUESTION?".
Maybe the question is what do we replace war with? We would have to declare Peace on other Countries! We would need to train and equip ourselves for Peace. How do we do that, when our very human nature betrays us? I don't think we are able to make that kind of transition without God's help....and many will not tolerate God.
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