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Yes, some lifestyles may be bad, and some behaviors are bad, but when those lifestyles and behaviors affect only the person doing them then we need to stay out of it.
Take people who drink too much, yes it is wrong, unhealthy, but it is not your body and effects you in no way unless this person goes out and drives. Take someone who is very religious, yes some people are just plain nuts when it comes to this, but those that practice their religion and leave others be are doing nothing wrong until they begin to preach that we must convert, repent and except god and such.
Forcing someone to do anything is wrong.
Some people think beer and other forms of alcohol is bad, evil, sinful, and wrong. That is there opinion, and they can have it. I however brew, drink and love beer, I will never stop drinking it even if the government says I have to. Some think this country was founded on religion, when infact it was founded on beer. Think I am lying...if so send me an email and I will prove it.
Well... All of what you said is true IF it truly does NOT affect anybody else.
But let's talk about drinking for a moment. (nd by the way, I'm not the least bit interested in the "this country was founded on beer" argument. That's just not what we're talking about here.)
Are you going to tell me that drinking/alcohol/boozing (whatever term you want to use) does NOT often affect other people? And it affects people in FAR more ways than just somebody driving drunk. You and I both know that countless families have been utterly destroyed because somebody can't hold their booze.
I'm not arguing that beer should be made illegal. But I AM saying that its consumption is often very bad, and affects many people in terrible ways.
Until we stop pretending that God isnt required for a personal Universe in which we live and instead force ourselves to think 'Natural Causes' did it all...and until we stop with the misunderstanding that 'he hides from us' ... and until we utterly DEPEND on him and are WILLING to live for him and follow the moral laws he has instituted for us to live by, then yes it will be up to us to work it all out ourselves -- which is an impossibility for finite Man . Look what happened following 9-11-01 ... people were flocking back to Churches to find solace and to draw nearer to God for hope and dependence ; but within approx. 3 months , it was back to business as usual . The Founders of this once great country would consider America a travesty at this point.
Okay, how about coming at it from this angle. Why is it that the ultra religious person quite often assumes that to live what the religious call a moral life, one needs a profound belief in God?
What do you have to say about a person that lives just as moral a life (even by your rules) as you do, but does not adhere to a specific faith. Perhaps this person is spiritual or perhaps not, but he/she does all the things that you (as a religious person) says they should do... all except sit on the front row of the church on sunday and proselytize constantly. What if this person never had sex out of wedlock, was always kind and upright toward his/her fellow man, never did any of the things that Christianity considers wrong or improper, and was never into the hedonistic lifestyle that is now in vogue?
So, in effect, what if God wasn't required to keep this person on the straight and narrow? What if he/she did it on his/her own? I submit to you that it is not an absolute requirement to believe in a God to live what you would call a chaste, upright, and meaningful life. What do you think about that idea?
Well... All of what you said is true IF it truly does NOT affect anybody else.
But let's talk about drinking for a moment. (nd by the way, I'm not the least bit interested in the "this country was founded on beer" argument. That's just not what we're talking about here.)
Are you going to tell me that drinking/alcohol/boozing (whatever term you want to use) does NOT often affect other people? And it affects people in FAR more ways than just somebody driving drunk. You and I both know that countless families have been utterly destroyed because somebody can't hold their booze.
I'm not arguing that beer should be made illegal. But I AM saying that its consumption is often very bad, and affects many people in terrible ways.
I agree some people cant hold their alcohol, but you cannot demonize all forms of it because some people are stupid or cant hold their booze. Everyone always says hate the sin love the sinner..that is not always the case, sometimes it is not the "sin" or act the person did, but the person themselves. I always love it when I here people tell alcoholics that it isnt their fault, its the booze...that could not be further from the truth, it is their fault not the alcohols. Just like drunk driving, not the alcohols fault but in fact the person who consumes its fault.
I've pondered over this question much of my life...and wondered why our world population seems always to be involved in strife, violence and war. Why couldn't we be at peace with one another and live in harmony with nature? A utopian 'Peaceable Kingdom' dream it seemed, but why not?
Well, maybe I found an answer in the book I just read: The Evolution of Desire by psychologist David M. Buss. 10,000 people of all ages were studied, from thirty-seven cultures worldwide. His summation is that we need to look at our evolutionary past for answers.
One of his conclusions is that our propensity for violence is hard-wired into our evolutionary genetic make-up. Just like most of the animal kingdom, we, too, fight over mates and resources, and for power. So it has been through the ages and so it will continue to be, according to Buss. He claims there's never been a culture that lived peaceably with their neighbors and in harmony with nature for very long, human nature being what it is. (Is this true? What about Tibet and the Buddhist culture there?)
Very depressing, his conclusion.
Yet I can't argue with human history, though I have wondered why it has to be as it's been. Because, you see, I've very much wanted to live in a "Peaceable Kingdom" where we all get along.
I've tried to cultivate peace within and in how I treat others by practicing loving kindness. Sometimes with success, and sometimes not. But it takes practice, to be loving and kind in an often angry world...
I never wanted to see any genetic engineering done, but now I wonder if genetic engineering to remove our warring genetic propensity might not make the world a better place?
Or, are we humans a failed experiment and maybe the next species to inhabit the earth will be further along the evolutionary path and will do better than we have? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I've pondered over this question much of my life...and wondered why our world population seems always to be involved in strife, violence and war. Why couldn't we be at peace with one another and live in harmony with nature? A utopian 'Peaceable Kingdom' dream it seemed, but why not?
.
How much of what you hold dear are you willing to give up as a compromise, in order to have peace? How much of you country's wealth in order to have more equitable distribution of global income? How many of your personal values in order for someone else's values to be generally accepted? Under what form of world government that everyone, rich and poor, generous and greedy, would embrace? What method of dealing with rogue elements within the system? How tolerant of minority lifestyles? Whose idea of crime and punishment prevails, and who gets the enforcement guns? What's against the law, whats not? Is a creche allowed on the courthouse lawn? Can gays marry? Does oil belong to everybody? Can Viagra be advertised on TV?
It's not that easy, when you have to make compromises with Shiites, gays and gun nuts in order to have peace.
"It's not that easy, when you have to make compromises with Shiites, gays and gun nuts in order to have peace."
Compromises--bingo!! That's what it's all about. If I won't give an inch and you won't give an inch, then we're back to square one--strife, violence and war. The same old, same old. Do we love war so much?
Give a little, get a little.
Oh where is wise old King Solomon when we need him most??
If one doesn't live one's life based on fear or maybe even hatred of the "Other" than maybe, just maybe we can all get along. I just think first we have to be able to visualize peace before we can start along the path toward peace.
And as long as we fear and hate the "Other" we'll not make any progress.
i think when and if the world unites, it will be a beautiful thing. we will pool our strengths together and make a better world. i think we're trying to do that now.
Well... All of what you said is true IF it truly does NOT affect anybody else.
But let's talk about drinking for a moment. (nd by the way, I'm not the least bit interested in the "this country was founded on beer" argument. That's just not what we're talking about here.)
Are you going to tell me that drinking/alcohol/boozing (whatever term you want to use) does NOT often affect other people? And it affects people in FAR more ways than just somebody driving drunk. You and I both know that countless families have been utterly destroyed because somebody can't hold their booze.
I'm not arguing that beer should be made illegal. But I AM saying that its consumption is often very bad, and affects many people in terrible ways.
Obviously that is a case where it is effecting other people, but you cannot say that every time someone drinks a beer it is effecting someone else. I am enjoying a dogfish brew as I type this and I can tell you that the only person that it is effecting is me. Just as the one I had before this and the one I will have after this before going to bed.
I hate the term hate the sin(act, deed) love the sinner. This is the wrong thing to do, you should actually blame the person doing the act not the act itself.
If a homosexual couple goes to court to get a civil union and then goes home to "consummate" the marriage, who is it effecting other then the couple involved? it does not concern you or anyone else. Now if they where doing the deed on the front lawn then yes it would concern those that had to witness it. Sexual deeds in public are wrong no matter what sexual preference you choose.
Someone who is devote to his religion and believes in God and keeps it to themselves and does not force it upon others is not doing anything wrong. But when they decide to take it outside and preach it to those that do not wish to hear it, or try to force their religion on others then they are wrong and something must be done.
Someone who enjoys a drink in his own home or even in a bar and is responsible to wait to drive, get a ride, walk, or not leave is being responsible and is doing nothing wrong. If they are simply enjoying a beer or two or three after work and it does not effect his lively hood or his families then he is doing nothing wrong even if he gets drunk.
Someone who smokes pot in their own home and does not drive, and continues to live a normal life is not doing anything wrong and it does not concern you or anyone else.
All of these actions are fine and do not effect other people unless the person doing them makes it so. So you cannot blame the action, only the person. Think about it, when someone is drinking and driving and they get caught do you think that the beer makers should go to jail? NO of course not they didnt make that person drink and drive and neither did the beer, the person choose to drive drunk and that is who the courts punish.
When your actions effect other people in an actual manner and cost them in a bad way, then it concerns others. So, forcing those that are responsible and do not allow their actions to effect others should be left alone and the few that do let their actions effect others should not be allowed to ruin it for everyone. DO you get what I am saying?
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