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You know, with all the political turmoil, economic strife, and religious mania creeping around the globe over the last several years, I often wonder just how this stage of development will be looked upon by future generations living in this country. Will this be seen as a time of great change and social development, with sweeping socialist reforms changing the face of America for the better? Or will it be viewed as the dark age, when democracy was threatened by dangerous agendas? Or, will there be no conception of a time and place different than what they have, because there is no written word left that remarks about a much different, distant past?
To be sure we can all see the signs and feel the winds of change stirring all around us. But we are unsure as to what end these means will bring us. Thus, the subject of this debate. So tell me, and the rest of us, how you think this time will be seen and represented in the future. Will it be the days of great change and enlightenment, or just another dark smudge in the pages of American history? Respectful posts and debate only please, but feel free to say what you feel.
PS. I am well aware we can't see the future or know what is to come. This thread is merely an opportunity to debate what you think the impact of these times will have on the future and future studies of history.
Depends on who wins these religious and political changes.
The world changes every second, and the winner writes the history.
OK, let me clarify something. Chango and ChrisC Do you claim that
A) The world is unfair. THere is poverty and strife
B) THe trend is that this is getting worse
If its (A) we have little argument. It's important to fight against injustice, but it will always be with us to some extent.
If its (B), stating current injustices does not support this. The trend is toward a more propserous world with greater health and social and economic liberties.
And let me explain that the methods of your attempts to open people's eyes to rest rest of the world are actually prejudiced and condescending. You speak of areas of the world you obviously have little knowledge about and talk of how oppressive or horrible they are, despite the vast improvement that have been made throughout the years. And you act as if the US is the only just and free country. 1 out of 100 US citizens are currently in jail. This is a higher amount than even *gasp* the Middle East or China. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html
It is the US that is on a more troubling path in some ways, rather than the rest of the world. Much of the world is improving greatly.
Last edited by bluebeard; 08-27-2009 at 03:09 PM..
OK, let me clarify something. Chango and ChrisC Do you claim that
A) The world is unfair. THere is poverty and strife
B) THe trend is that this is getting worse
.
Do you honestly belive it isn't?
Wow, bluebeard. If you don't then you must live on planet Chinese media propagandatopia where only filtered good news is broadcasted 24/7.
Do you honestly belive it isn't?
Wow, bluebeard. If you don't then you must live on planet Chinese media propagandatopia where only filtered good news is broadcasted 24/7.
I know you are but what am I? Nyah Nyah Nyah!
That was the intellectual equivalent of what you just said.
But yeah, I guess I'm brainwashed. Either that or I have family and many friends that were devastated by the cultural revolution, yet now I'm trying to convince them not to waste their money on cars and larger apartments they don't need.
You can attack me for being brainwashed, but you obviously have never been there. The Western media lacks understanding, and if you think the China of the 50's, or even the 70's and 80's, remotely resembles anything close to the China today, you are mistaken. To say that life in China now is equal to what it was under Mao, a dictator that had no respect for human life, and was a monster, is ridiculous.
In the 50's people were sent en masse for re-education, persecuted for learning foreign instruments and being educated.
I'm not saying the government is great. Most liberal-minded Chinese people have issues with the government. It is precisely because of the better of people's lives since the 70's that it has any legitimacy at all. Many injustices that happened in the past could never happen to the extent they can now primarily to to a rising prosperous and educated population. It's true, there is no independent justice system, widespread censorship, a rural/urban divide and segregation. But your talk about how nothing has changed, how its getting worse, turns even the most liberal Chinese off. You are not interested in discussion, just superiority.
You have no argument. just claims with no support. Death statistics that don't have a total population in the denominator. Statistics about the current global situation (that were incorrect might I add), yet say nothing of the overall trend of say, the past 50 years.
But go ahead, call me brainwashed. Lobbing unsubstantiated insults is fun sometimes.
Please read the Pew survey of Chinese. It is by a Western polling agency. It shows people's satisfaction with the improvement of their lives.
Last edited by bluebeard; 08-27-2009 at 03:25 PM..
I know you are but what am I? Nyah Nyah Nyah!
That was the intellectual equivalent of what you just said.
But yeah, I guess I'm brainwashed. Either that or I have family and many friends that were devastated by the cultural revolution, yet now I'm trying to convince them not to waste their money on cars and larger apartments they don't need.
You can attack me for being brainwashed, but you obviously have never been there. The Western media lacks understanding, and if you think the China of the 50's, or even the 70's and 80's, remotely resembles anything close to the China today, you are mistaken.
In the 70's people were sent en masse for re-education, persecuted for learning foreign instruments and being educated.
I'm not saying the government is great. Most liberal-minded Chinese people have issues with the government. It is precisely because of the better of people's lives since the 70's that it has any legitimacy at all. Many injustices that happened in the past could never happen to the extent they can now primarily to to a rising prosperous and educated population. It's true, there is no independent justice system, widespread censorship, a rural/urban divide and segregation. But your talk about how nothing has changed, how its getting worse, turns even the most liberal Chinese off. You are not interested in discussion, just superiority.
You have no argument. just claims with no support. Death statistics that don't have a total population in the denominator. Statistics about the current global situation (that were incorrect might I add), yet say nothing of the overall trend of say, the past 50 years.
But go ahead, call me brainwashed. Lobbing unsubstantiated insults is fun sometimes.
Well then, maybe we only have a clash of cultural ideals. Your country is on the rise, mine is on the decline. The sun just isn't as shiny on this side of the briny blue. Just remember, the good times don't last, so don't get as crusty as me when the party is over. And the party WILL end. It always does.
How's that for excercising my superiority over all of creation? It's all right, you foreigners can stop worshipping me now. I'm not a pagan god after all. je je....
Maybe I should mention I'm Argentino with Scandinavian ancestory now, just to really muck up the nationality thing....chau!
you must live on planet Chinese media propagandatopia where only filtered good news is broadcasted 24/7.
Number of cable stations on most urban cable lineups that originate outside the country:
People's Republic of China == 0
United States of America == 0
(Before i get flamed, I will explain that Univision and Telemundo are USA cable providers who select and purchase the rights to air Spanish Language programs from Latin American countries. BBC-America is a USA cable profider who selects and purchases the rights to air BBC programs. Both pre-screen programs before airing, make their selections based on the perceived suitability of the program content for American audiences and advertisers. In a few cases near the border, cable companies pick up TV stations from Canada or Mexico which are also available over the air in those markets.)
Well then, maybe we only have a clash of cultural ideals. Your country is on the rise, mine is on the decline. The sun just isn't as shiny on this side of the briny blue. Just remember, the good times don't last, so don't get as crusty as me when the party is over. And the party WILL end. It always does.
Then what it seems you are doing is extrapolating your country to the experience of the rest of the world. It is not about cultural ideals, although this is what contributes the the misunderstanding of even the basic facts. China has had increasing civil and economic liberties in the last 50 years.
I'm sorry for the situation of your country if life is getting worse there. I don't know much about it, I still hope the long-term life for it improves.
As for China, indeed the situation is not assured to continue. I think that revolution is not in the near cards, but one can never tell how good things will be in the future. The past 50 years have been improving, and the next likely will as well. Beyond than, anything can happen.
Number of cable stations on most urban cable lineups that originate outside the country:
People's Republic of China == 0
United States of America == 0
(Before i get flamed, I will explain that Univision and Telemundo are USA cable providers who select and purchase the rights to air Spanish Language programs from Latin American countries. BBC-America is a USA cable profider who selects and purchases the rights to air BBC programs. Both pre-screen programs before airing, make their selections based on the perceived suitability of the program content for American audiences and advertisers. In a few cases near the border, cable companies pick up TV stations from Canada or Mexico which are also available over the air in those markets.)
American access to the internet information: limited only by bandwith and patience.
Chinese access to internet information: After the latest revision, may access Chinese communist party website and links to photos of Chairman Mao.
American access to the internet information: limited only by bandwith and patience.
Chinese access to internet information: After the latest revision, may access Chinese communist party website and links to photos of Chairman Mao.
You know, when I google "Argentina Human Rights" over 7 milliion hits come up. Human Rights Watch talks of how the population has limited access to contraception, thus trapping the worst off in poverty due to a lack of reproductive rights. Also, Nazis were very welcome in Argentina. You guys must have pictures of Hitler up on your walls.
Of course, I'd say Argentina is better off now, than say, during the "dirty war" time, no?
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