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Old 11-30-2009, 09:10 AM
 
109 posts, read 364,359 times
Reputation: 74

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Nope, it's true. I despise the truly despise the idea but I know that as long as I have become painfully aware of sufferings and errors of the flawed system, then so should other people.

Do I think family court is necessary? Yes, because not everyone is willing to take care of their own children and because there are so many children who don't get what they deserve at all. Welfare should not be used to take the place of a willingly absent parent.

Feel free to use the topic but without my username please. The PBS show "Guns, Germs and Steel" as well as a few others already explored the topic in great detail. I just had to take two versions of world history (World History & Western Civilization) for my degree and I know the history of world events. It doesn't seem like many people do know enough about the world.

And no, you added details that were NOT my opinion but yours.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,917,890 times
Reputation: 3767
Cool The view from an old male lion....

I have a pretty good idea how a lot of immature guys think as regards women they see (correctly or not) as "loose" or "easy". Party girls, "just asking for it", right? One of those women way back in my university days disgusted me by simply and regularly having yet another abortion as her personal easy way out... Since it was in Canada, that procedure didn't even cost her anything.

Seems to me both sides take this all too superficially. A baby is an important consequence and choice. BTW, does the OP suggest keeping any and all babies that happen from casual sex? Just curious.

Isn't it perhaps better to take responsibility for birth control on your own, without mandatory surgery for captured males? Both sides need to take this responsibility, but we know that young, stupid male egos don't think well until they are AT LEAST 35 years old. So it's going to continue to be (mostly) up to you clear-headed women, who, for the most part I think, are far more sensible, and do think ahead about families and babies. And responsibilities 'n stuff.

How boring, huh guys?

When you "dress up" for that party, remember: you may be intentionally trolling for a suitable life-mate. Most of the guys at those parties don't quite see you that way...

I'm just sayin'....
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:40 AM
 
109 posts, read 364,359 times
Reputation: 74
Nope, rifleman, you missed lots of my replies as OP and follow up if you think I said it was okay for moms to keep babies. Social and emotional support for mothers to go the adoption route easily ended in the 80's. If I was given ANY other choice than the one I currently living, I would have taken it. I love my son now, and know I am still the better parent because his dad and stepmom are still truly strangers. Yup, I was the .01% that got pregnant on the pill AND with a condom so know that NOTHING is for certain.

And yes, that is part of my point to all men. Don't have sex with a girl unless you ARE indeed to prepared to handle the consequences WHATEVER they may be. I wish I had had the "WHAT IF?" discussion before I wound up in bed. Such is why I recommend chastity for all women. Most men view ALL women as easy whether they are or not....

And if you get married, MEAN the vows. Why lie for something that major? Marriage is a contract after all! Marriage takes two wiiling participants so if you are not willing, walk out before it's legal. Kids need 2 parents plus a whole village to help them grow up happy and healthy.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
It is still incumbent upon society to not maximize or magnify the consequences of imperfect behavior. "They deserve it" is not a civilized response by moral people who could instead mitigate the suffering.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:52 AM
 
78,408 posts, read 60,593,823 times
Reputation: 49691
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
That's not a bad idea. I'm kind of embarrassed that I never thought of it myself.

If I agree with it, you're going to have a lot of people opposing it just on principle.

The problem would be enforcement. If we can't even find these guys to garnishee their paycheck, how are going to get them onto the operating table? And there are also the constitutional questions about a forced surgical procedure.
I have to agree with you.

I think the general concept might be workable.

1) Offer FREE tube ties or vasectomies to anyone that wants one.
2) Allow irresponsible parents (deadbeats, abusive, negligent etc.) the chance to reduce their social penalties like jail time or terms of probation etc. to include a procedure like this.

I can imagine a number of "players" out there would love nothing more than to not be able to have more kids...they just don't have the $$$ for the procedure.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 4,463,432 times
Reputation: 977
Ever think that if Girls would just learn to keep their knees together, we would not have to face these problems.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,388,397 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
Ever think that if Girls would just learn to keep their knees together, we would not have to face these problems.
Theres an educated response.

Abstinence only doesn't work, I hope you read this article.

Study Casts Doubt on Abstinence-Only Programs - washingtonpost.com


Authorized by Congress in 1997, the study followed 2000 children from elementary or middle school into high school. The children lived in four communities -- two urban, two rural. All of the children received the family life services available in their community, in addition, slightly more than half of them also received abstinence-only education.
By the end of the study, when the average child was just shy of 17, half of both groups had remained abstinent. The sexually active teenagers had sex the first time at about age 15. Less than a quarter of them, in both groups, reported using a condom every time they had sex. More than a third of both groups had two or more partners.

People have sex, its just that simple.

If we can get over the "just don't have sex" point, then you can get down to the real issue. That being, unwanted pregnancies happen, and what do we do about them.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:15 AM
 
78,408 posts, read 60,593,823 times
Reputation: 49691
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It is still incumbent upon society to not maximize or magnify the consequences of imperfect behavior. "They deserve it" is not a civilized response by moral people who could instead mitigate the suffering.
I'm a little confused here. Don't most laws magnify the consequences of imperfect behavior? ie) Drunk Driving laws

...or are you talking about more punitive measures?
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:18 AM
 
109 posts, read 364,359 times
Reputation: 74
Here's the deal, rifleman, you missed quite a few posts. Not every girl WANTS to keep a baby without a husband but if abortion is expensive and guy won't pay (and she only has one guy-so can't ask another one to pay), adoption papers won't be signed, then what...

I love my son. And because I have been there 12 years, I know his dad (or stepmom) would never be ABLE to do for him what I have in those 12 years.

Besides dating for more than a year isn't casual sex in my opinion.....but that's a woman's point of view....to him, I was the other woman while he was engaged to someone else. If I had know about here or had the "what if I get pregnant" discussion, he would have been dumped FAST. Dishonesty affects many people.

Yes, that was my point. I was the 0.01% that could get pregnant on the pill and a condom too. No one should be having sex with anyone they wouldn't want to spend forever with. Hell, my tubes are tied and I still don't have the urge to risk a third pregnancy.

For those who DO choose to get married and be responsible for the kid, MEAN the vows. It takes two willing partners to make a marriage work and a whole (positive) support system to make the child healthy. Assumptions of casual sex is not going to make for a healthy kid growing up! Incorrect moral judgments of single moms affect the kids in EVERY way as another poster just proved.

Population DOES affect per capita. It makes a difference in national wealth. Read "Population Bomb" by Erlich, "One nation,

If you don't want welfare programs or see the poor, then something must happen because no child "deserves" to suffer for idiotic reasons. But children do suffer, mine have. He can talk child support caseworkers into helping him cheat out of debt. Anything but anything than be actually responsible....

Last edited by leavingGA; 11-30-2009 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:23 AM
 
109 posts, read 364,359 times
Reputation: 74
It's already a fact, in most US states, child support arrears in excess of $7K is a FELONY. It's already a crime but so many go out of their way to avoid paying. So why not avoid having the debt in the first place? You get married, you can still have a child. My ex bought a HOUSE while having child support arrears outstanding.
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