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the workforce did not double overnight, and wages did not make a significant drop overnight either; it was gradual, over a period of time for both to occur. However, if tomorrow, it was decided that NO woman would work for pay, then salaries for the remaining men would double--overnight. Men would then be in high demand to perform those jobs now done by both genders.
I don't know if this is the case in my industry. I've been a member of an interviewing team 4 times now in the past year. Of all the quailified candidates I've seen, ~30% have been American men. The rest are women and foreign born men and women. It's likely that not you, or any person participating in this thread, would be qualified to apply to these types of positions. So, there might be more available men, that doesn't mean you are qualified to fill the positions. We would and do tap internationally.
Seems logical that there are no blanket answers for a whole group of people.
Some are trying hard to find work to support themselves--and can not.
Some have given up.
Some live in dreamland and think they'll become famous musicians or sports stars.
Some lack the skills needed to find a job.
Some have destructive relationships--marital or family--and have psychological problems and need help.
Some have addictions that keep them from productive lives
I could go on, but what I'm getting at is there are no pat answers.
But there sure seem to be far more job-seekers than there are jobs for them right now.
It all boils down to this....do you recklessly fall into the trap of that rampant consumerism and "allow" your quality of life to degrade under a mountain of debt?....or do you resist the temptation and go without. Just because credit cards are available, that does NOT mean that you have to give in to the temptation and get one. If you DO have a credit card, no one MAKES you buy things that you can do without! A credit card should only be used in a dire emergency.
We have a credit card, but we have rarely ever used it and we ARE under the $50,000 per year income bracket....AND have 6 people living under our roof. No one is happier than us, or more content. When we buy a piece of furniture, we buy it second hand and refinish it. We repurpose what we can, cook from scratch, do NOT stop at coffee stands, go out to eat at restaurants, etc. We never, ever go without what we need, but definitely have learned to NOT fall into the trap of "keeping up with the Joneses". The problem with the Joneses?... It's a LIE! The Joneses are poorer than the average Joe Blow!...because they've got 2nd (at least) mortgages on everything.....they don't actually OWN anything. If the Joneses lose their income, they lose everything, because they've bought everything on credit. No makee pmts, no havee anything. Good heavens it's all basic math here.
I have no respect for those living all-out on credit, behaving like irresponsible spoiled brats. It's all an illusion and can be snatched away just like THAT. The biggest share of people haven't a clue how to manage their money. They're too busy living for their wants in order to impress someone else. They're too afraid of "looking poor"....again, it's all an illusion. LOL
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Look, I'm not saying that we should all be spendthrifts and that the type of economizing you are suggesting doesn't make some sense.
I am saying this: While economizing may be good for a family stop and think about what effect it would have on the economy as a whole if every family did all the things you suggest. Buy used furniture and refurnish it? I guess the furniture factories might as well shut down and lay off all their employees. There will always be folks with more income who are willing to buy new and discard their old. Don't go out and eat at restaurants? I guess all those chains might just as well go out of business and layoff all their cooks, waitresses and hostesses. Again, there are always those who will not cook and/or eat at home. You didn't say this but I guess the implication is we should all buy used cars too. We have always purchased used cars. My last car was free and cost $400 to get running like a top and get new tires on it, been driving it for 3 years now. The one before, $800 and drove it for 10 years, without putting a penny into it. The most we've ever paid for a vehicle was $4,000...and had it financed through a bank....10 years ago. If this happens, all the automakers might as well shut down 50% of their production and layoff 50% of their employees. Don't buy as much from retail stores like Walmart? I guess 1/2 of retail stores might as well close. I do not feel the least bit responsible for keeping anyone else in business. We will always need things like toilet paper, dishwashing and laundry detergent, lightbulbs, food products.
Economists have a term for what you are describing. That term is the "paradox of thrift". Thrift maybe good for an individual. Its not good for a country that depends on the exchange of goods and services.
You think a credit card should only be used in an emergencies. Ok, what is your alternative? Most places won't let you write a check anymore. You could carry around cash in your wallet, but that's sort of risk too. I'd rather risk losing $100 than risk having my identity stolen or my credit card number hijacked! You may lose it or have it stolen. I guess there's the debit card. I do have a "pay as you go" debit card! I'm kind of stubborn there. I think its a device that works well for banks. I'm not convinced it works well for consumers.
Now, let me tell you what I think is a better way to live:
1. Use debt, but use it carefully. Its unrealistic to think you can buy a home without a mortgage. So, I recommend everyone get their credit in shape and get a mortgage at the lowest possible interest rate when they buy a home.
2. Have a credit card and pay it off TWICE a month. In fact, I think the term "credit card" is a bad word. It should be a "convenience card". That way you'll never pay a dime of interest. If you're like me, you also get free roundtrip flights around the country too by using it.
3. Buy a new car, but don't overpay for it. Consult Consumer Reports and other sources. Look for a true deal. We purchased a new Ford Focus for $14,500 about a year ago. New cars come with warranties and the latest safety features. They get better gas economy than older cars do.
4. Sometimes buying new appliances is truly the best option. They get more in the way of energy savings than older appliances do and they will last longer than a used item will. We have the same Maytag washer we purchased new when we got married in 1985.
5. Debt is a not a dirty word. Without debt, we wouldn't have a family income well into the six figure range. The key is using debt appropriately. Use it to buy a house. Use it to build a business. Use it to buy a car. use it to go to school in a field that will generate a decent income. If you look at virtually every person in this country who is a success story (not someone who just inherited money) almost every one of those people had the discipline to use debt wisely.
Debt is not used wisely by some. For that matter, others abuse alcohol, tobacco, drugs, or the right to keep firearms. I daresay the majority are responsible.
Good for you that you have a six-figure income, perhaps you need to make that much money, or "feel" you need that kind of money. We, and many others like us, do not need that much money. We are quite self-sufficient in many ways and do not feel compelled to pay others to do for us what we are perfectly capable of doing for ourselves.
I don't know if this is the case in my industry. I've been a member of an interviewing team 4 times now in the past year. Of all the quailified candidates I've seen, ~30% have been American men. The rest are women and foreign born men and women. It's likely that not you, or any person participating in this thread, would be qualified to apply to these types of positions. So, there might be more available men, that doesn't mean you are qualified to fill the positions. We would and do tap internationally.
I see no reason to open our borders to foreigners of any kind. Instead, they should work with what they have.
Getting back to No Excuses - while the jobs you post up are good jobs and don't requrire a BS/BA degree, let me talk about one I know about - nuclear power plant operator.
If you don't have a degree, the "back door" into the control room is through Uncle Rickover's Canoe Club - AKA the US Nuclear Navy (maybe the Royal Navy will work too, probably will...) You can do the enlisted route here, I forget what the minimum enlistment period was when I was around this (prototype) but it's probably different now. You can go Surface or go Sub - each has it's advantages, and dis-advantages. Particularly the latter. But depending on what billet you get, the minimum time in may or may not give you the experience you need to get hired at a US NPP.
You are way better off getting a degree before trying to get a job as an operator. If you can't finance it otherwise, Uncle Rickover will put you through an engineering degree and pay all your bills, plus a decent stipend to live on. Enjoy the beer and pizza while you are in school, there will be no beer for you on USS Grey Boat. Ever hear of Faust? It's like that, but the Devil is more of a gentleman.
Anyhow, I think the facts of the matter are that high school has been dumbed down to the level taht the diploma means little beyond you were not stupid enough to quit school or such a rowdy that you got thrown out. Plenty of people graduate high school unable to read and follow written directions, balance a checkbook, figure out how many MPG their car gets, write a simple business letter, etc. Most decent jobs require training and/or education beyond high school.
Good for you that you have a six-figure income, perhaps you need to make that much money, or "feel" you need that kind of money. We, and many others like us, do not need that much money. We are quite self-sufficient in many ways and do not feel compelled to pay others to do for us what we are perfectly capable of doing for ourselves.
Perhaps, its more of a philosophical question of what life is about more than an economic question. My wife and I have certain priorities which we deem very important. We wanted a nice house in a nice neighborhood. We have that and it is paid for. We want to be able to afford to send our kids to college. As hard as that is becoming, we can afford do it with only two children.
Self-sufficiency was a good philosophy for people living on a farm back in the 1800's. Today's economy makes us all interdependent. I'm not saying self-sufficiency is undoable. What I am saying is that I think most people are happier when they have more choices and more abundance. I'm proud of the fact that we keep alot of people employed. Whether they be employees, whether they be government workers who are paid from the income tax we pay, or whether they be employees at the stores and businesses we patronize, we help keep this economy going and keep paychecks arriving in the pockets of other families. Could we get by on less? I'm sure we could. Would the world be a better place if we did? I highly doubt it.
Good for you that you have a six-figure income, perhaps you need to make that much money, or "feel" you need that kind of money. We, and many others like us, do not need that much money. We are quite self-sufficient in many ways and do not feel compelled to pay others to do for us what we are perfectly capable of doing for ourselves.
Perhaps, its more of a philosophical question of what life is about more than an economic question. My wife and I have certain priorities which we deem very important. We wanted a nice house in a nice neighborhood. We have that and it is paid for. We want to be able to afford to send our kids to college. As hard as that is becoming, we can afford do it with only two children.
Self-sufficiency was a good philosophy for people living on a farm back in the 1800's. Today's economy makes us all interdependent. I'm not saying self-sufficiency is undoable. What I am saying is that I think most people are happier when they have more choices and more abundance. I'm proud of the fact that we keep alot of people employed. Whether they be employees, whether they be government workers who are paid from the income tax we pay, or whether they be employees at the stores and businesses we patronize, we help keep this economy going and keep paychecks arriving in the pockets of other families. Could we get by on less? I'm sure we could. Would the world be a better place if we did? I highly doubt it.
I think many of your "priorities" are a matter of perspective. We wanted a nice house as well. However, we made the decision to buy an old fixer upper, on a sizeable piece of property only a few blocks from the ocean. Our priorities lie in teaching our children values and skills which we deem as "priorities". Those skills include learning to grow their own foods, work on their own vehicles, operate pretty much any power and hand tool you can own, repair and build needful things, etc. Our home is getting nicer by the day and has been a wonderful home for our 4 children. Most importantly, our children are kind, generous, respectful, hard-working people, who do not judge others by the fanciness of their baubles.
Braunwyn - so what skills is your industry/company looking for?
Oh, a range of skills, education, background. It's pharma. In my area, it's early drug discovery - metabolism and pharmacokinetics. At least 50% of the job encompasses innovation and that's the type of track record I see my lab heads looking for. The reality is that all those that have lost jobs in construction, the auto industry, etc. are not going to be applying for these gigs. I've also had conversations with a few on this board complaining that they have the education (at least), but there isn't an interest in moving. I can understand that, but prudent planning needs to be applied. Know where you're going to be and what the booming industry is in your area. My dh and I would like to move to a warmer climate, but we need to be where our industry is and Boston is the place for biotech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar
I see no reason to open our borders to foreigners of any kind. Instead, they should work with what they have.
I'm not sure what to say to that. HR does the picking for candidates we interview. They send 3-4 at a time and choose the best of the lot according to whatever rubric they use, which I'm sure amounts to a lot of buzz words. If HR is sending 30-50% of candidates that are not American born, that tells me something. Last year we chose a Russian over an American candidate (as well as three from India). He had upwards of 30 publications and 20 years experience. The American was a screener. I liked him, but he had a masters in theology. I mean, c'mon lol. Why shouldn't the company take the best of those applying?
Something else I've noticed IRT IT. My dept has our own IT group. The head of that group is from China. He has a ph d in microbiology. That's not a run of the mill comp sci major. Life is so much easier having scientists in IT for the work we do. But, be clear that we have plenty of Americans, they're just not a majority. The guy that works on my projects is American, but he's also a chemist. Again, it makes all the difference in the world.
OTOH, from what I have noticed, most of the folk that work in HR and in admin positions are American.
You obviously are not in tune with reality. People work two jobs these days save up their money and still are not able to make enough to live on. Expenses have gone up all over and wages have stayed the same. You are not taking in account the economy and other factors.
I am very much in tune with reality and the economy has been taken into consideration.
It is completely possible to live within the means of a wage if a person decides to. It is astounding to realize just what people can do without. Most things are not NECESSARY, but desired.
Two people can live on $20,000/yr. or less. One can live on less.
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