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Every day I am disgusted as to what I see going on here on Long Island. I am a middle class American citizen. I do not receive any government assistance. I work hard for everything that I have, and I understand the value of a dollar. Welfare is a means of getting on your feet, not a way of life! Now I am not talking about EVERYONE on welfare. There are many people on public assistance who use it how it is meant to be used - as a hand to help you up when you are down. Unfortunately, the welfare system is flawed and therefore abused.
When I go food shopping I look for items on sale, purchase in bulk, & buy non brand name items to get the most for my money. I have noticed customers with gold chains & these fancy new expensive cell phones on line paying with food stamps. Not only that, their carts are filled with all NAME BRAND items regardless of if they are on sale or not. Steaks, candy, cookies, soda ect without regards to price. Many times I have been approached by a person offering to sell me food stamps for 50% cash. What about the drug addicts that receive all these benefits? They get health care, schooling, all kinds of public assistance, even DENTAL! I see many drug addicts on welfare who use all of that money on drugs, have no food in the house, no clothes for their kids yet nothing is done. After making several phone calls about a family with kids in a very unhealthy environment I asked the State employee about issuing drug tests. I was told that it was too costly to drug test everyone on public assistance and also an INVASION of their PRIVACY!!! Are you kidding me? They are being supported by the taxpayers & we're worried about invasion of privacy?!? What about protecting an investment or looking out for the innocent children being neglected and abused? A neighbors 3 year old child was walking 2 houses down from where they lived. He wanted to be with mommy who walked down the block & no one else in the house was watching him as he ran right out the front door! This was not the first time this has happened and there has been complaints filed yet nothing has changed.
Over the summer, president Obama issued $200 for every child living in a household on welfare. This was in the form of $200 per child being put onto their EBT card. Most kids from families NOT on welfare that DO NOT spend $200 on school supplies. This one family in particular, with 4 eligable children, received a total of $800. The mother then went down to a church where she received a voucher for the thrift store AND school supplies. The youngest of the children received NOTHING. The other 3 children each got $30 to spend, plus a couple of school books. Think back to the end of the summer. I find it kind of ironic that after that money was given, the amount of old tv sets & empty new TV boxes I saw in the trash.
I know of THREE families all on welfare, & all living in the same house. NONE of them work! They live in a very nice house. They receive help from the state with the rent on the house, & they also rent the house out to the 2 other families! All three families are on welfare but the other 2 families use the address of family members which is never investigated or verified. To top it off, all THREE families receive a fuel voucher - yet 2 weeks ago they called asking to borrow money because they were OUT OF FUEL. For TWO days they had no heat or hot water. There are 8 children from the age of 2 - 13 in that house! (Not to mention 6 adults & 3 children over 18). I failed to mention that 8 people in that house smoke cigarettes & 7 have cell phones. One person even has 2 cell phones. Mind you, very nice phones at that.
So you mean to tell me that the children have to suffer with NO HEAT & HOT WATER because they cannot afford oil yet they all have a full pack of smokes & a fancy new phone?!??!?!
Something is seriously wrong with the system. Where is the incentive for these people to go out & get a job?
I am disgusted with welfare too. ever read a book by john stossel called give me a break. He points out that most of the "welfare queens" are rich people. rich people get all kind of tax breaks, subsidies and special interest money from the government, the thing is they don't call it welfare, but it is.
The problem is really on the top and the bottom. The poor people don't want to work, the rich people want to rob the middle class, and only the middle class people want to work in america, rich people like the layman brothers and gm just ant welfare.
I just think the gov't should STOP ALL WELFARE. Poor people welfare and rich people welfare. No one should get money from the gov't for nothing, cut taxes end of story.
The problem is once the gov't starts giving away money, people who don't really need it, are going to want easy money. John stossel went to a man in a line for his welfare check, and he said he was a meth and heroin addict and was therefore disabled ( in reality he just liked drugs) so he collected welfare and he admitted that he should not get welfare and was able bodied to work full time, but since the program is there he might as well take advantage of it. and the sad thing is he is right. As long as the gov't take such a huge % of your income, you have a right to try and get what you can legally from the gov't. which is why i believe welfare should be abolished.
I am disgusted with welfare too. ever read a book by john stossel called give me a break. He points out that most of the "welfare queens" are rich people. rich people get all kind of tax breaks, subsidies and special interest money from the government, the thing is they don't call it welfare, but it is.
The problem is really on the top and the bottom. The poor people don't want to work, the rich people want to rob the middle class, and only the middle class people want to work in america, rich people like the layman brothers and gm just ant welfare.
I just think the gov't should STOP ALL WELFARE. Poor people welfare and rich people welfare. No one should get money from the gov't for nothing, cut taxes end of story.
The problem is once the gov't starts giving away money, people who don't really need it, are going to want easy money. John stossel went to a man in a line for his welfare check, and he said he was a meth and heroin addict and was therefore disabled ( in reality he just liked drugs) so he collected welfare and he admitted that he should not get welfare and was able bodied to work full time, but since the program is there he might as well take advantage of it. and the sad thing is he is right. As long as the gov't take such a huge % of your income, you have a right to try and get what you can legally from the gov't. which is why i believe welfare should be abolished.
there are several layers to this.
the economic system is like a pyramid scheme. those on the top "own" so they don't need to do actual work and they make the rules, therefore they get perks. those on the bottom have the crappiest jobs and lowest pay, so that is the reason why they may not want to work or unhappy with their work. those in the middle make pretty decent or enough to take care of themselves and some luxuries.
society creates those on the top, middle and bottom so society is obligated to take care of them all as they collect money from them all in some form or another.
you assume those in the middle are somehow the moralistic best for just some inherent reason and that's not true. they have the cushier jobs or sitting government dust bunnies etc.
the middle class represents what is best or ideal or balanced and how everyone should live.
now in a capitalist system, this doesn't seem feasible so you obviously can't blame those on the lowest rung as they pay taxes as well into the system.
the homeless and lost are always going to exist because life and any system isn't perfect. just leave them alone and don't begrudge them for eating the food you throw away. they don't cost society much at all.
expired food donations from grocery stores, a few shelters here and there for them to shower and donated old clothes are a penny in a huge pot.
it's ignorant to assume that people get large welfare checks anyways. if they have a drug habit, they will need to do more than get a welfare check to keep up the habit.
Avienne, as to lesson one: I understand that there are plenty of people with my "vanilla-coated, sheltered little bourgeois mindset" who have gotten addicted to drugs. And I have no problem with people going to get help and do the right thing. I don't believe drug addiction is a "health problem". CANCER is a health problem. Drug addiction is a DRUG problem. As to me punishing people who have a disease, never. But at the same time I do believe drug addicts should have to take some responsibility. There are many drug addicts who won their battle with drugs, and they didn't win it by getting everything handed to them. They did it by dedication & will power. As for LESSON 2: I never said to 100% deny them health care, but I do think they receive too many benefits. I don't believe they should go to school for free while many people who would like to cannot due to the fact that it just cost too much money.
About the 3 families living in the one house: am I looking through their windows? No. Am I talking to them & seeing first hand what goes on, absolutely. Some people just know how to work the system. It would be different if all their claims were legitimate, but they most certainly are not.
As to you saying "that could be you someday", I can assure you it would not. What I am talking about is ABUSING the welfare system & welfare fraud. Not for nothing, when I lost my job I was out at 6am every morning driving to job sites & other places of business looking for a job. I in no way expected to sit on my lazy *** and do nothing.
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Some people are not as GOOD as you are, and will never be as successful as you are, but are equally as deserving of a dignified lifestyle, and all that our wealthy society can do to ensure that dignity for people who are unable to earn it ln their own.
By successful you mean working 40+ hours a week to support a family? That should be NORMAL. Everyone deserves a dignified lifestyle, but it must be earned through hard work. A farmer's crops doesn't grow by him sitting at home watching television. He goes out there each & everyday working hard to make the most of his crops. If he doesn't go out & take care of his crops, no one is going to step in & farm his crops for him. Eventually they will wither & die.
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While I do understand what you are saying I think you are scapegoating people on food Stamps. I work in a grocery store and I think this is silly to expect people on food stamps to act "benath us" or something. Are they supposed to dress in rags and kneel down and thank us mighty tax payers? Are they no allowed to eat those "fancy" foods just peanut butter sandwiches or something? They are usually given a certain amount of money and they can spend it as they choose. WIC vouchers are different. As far as fancy clothes how am to know they are not gifts etc. Who am I to be going around judging people like you seem to feel is our right.
You have me all wrong, I am NOT scapegoating people on food stamps. What I have a problem with is the people fraudulently receiving food stamps and/or the people who take advantage of food stamps. If you are on food stamps, you should shop smart just as if it was your hard earned money. If you do not try to conserve your food stamps, well then that may explain why you are on welfare to begin with. If you can afford an iPhone, gold teeth, cigarettes, & a Cadillac then you most certainly do not need to be receiving food stamps. (and if you don't know, cigarettes here on Long Island cost around $8.45 a pack).
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Ye gods, I am so tired of the bitter, angry middle class castigating, demeaning, and dehumanizing the poor for being poor.
These judgmental people should try volunteering--when they're not thanking their lucky stars they didn't lose their own jobs and homes in the economic crisis like so many others in the bitter, angry middle class. They might find that the people they suspect of cheating the system have stories to tell, stories that would show them just how quick and wrong they are to judge people they don't even know.
I know what it is like to be poor. As it is I am struggling to make ends meet. I DID lose my job in this economic crisis & I busted my ass every day until I found work. I am not demeaning the poor for being poor, I am demeaning the "poor" who do nothing to better there situation & abusing the welfare system.
no, you are bitter. you're bitter because you obviously are not happy with your work or what you do. most people who are unhappy in thier job get very upset at those who seem to not have to work. it's funny because most can't abuse the system. it's just not set up that way anymore. this isn't the 80's and reagan era.
you seem to think that food stamps and some small check to barely pay for electricity is something someone can survive on. you cite this particular example where these people have abused the system and you're bitter. first of all, there is too much food so that's no loss. second, you can only get a small check if you have children.
everyone abuses the system in some way or another. what about those who own and making income. it's not defined as abuse or taking advantage but the economy is full of different loopholes or ways to make money or give leverage or particular advantage to one vs another. but people just call it capitalism. some people make money honestly or the hard way and some use legal and illegal schemes to make money.
while, you're so busy being upset, ever direct it at women who are married to wealthy men? no one ever accuses them of being lazy or not working. how about stay at home moms in general? they can say they work hard but maybe they sit on their ass eating bonbons or not doing much anyways. that's a pretty cushy deal i would say. well, you could say the husband is taking care of the family so they are no burden on the system. if someone earns enough to take care of someone else besides themselves, you could argue technically they are earning too much. after all, everyone should do thier own share, right?
society has proper labels for different situations but it's not necessarily indicative of whether people are lazy or not. only the individual knows that.
Avienne, as to lesson one: I understand that there are plenty of people with my "vanilla-coated, sheltered little bourgeois mindset" who have gotten addicted to drugs. And I have no problem with people going to get help and do the right thing. I don't believe drug addiction is a "health problem". CANCER is a health problem. Drug addiction is a DRUG problem. As to me punishing people who have a disease, never. But at the same time I do believe drug addicts should have to take some responsibility. There are many drug addicts who won their battle with drugs, and they didn't win it by getting everything handed to them. They did it by dedication & will power. As for LESSON 2: I never said to 100% deny them health care, but I do think they receive too many benefits. I don't believe they should go to school for free while many people who would like to cannot due to the fact that it just cost too much money.
About the 3 families living in the one house: am I looking through their windows? No. Am I talking to them & seeing first hand what goes on, absolutely. Some people just know how to work the system. It would be different if all their claims were legitimate, but they most certainly are not.
As to you saying "that could be you someday", I can assure you it would not. What I am talking about is ABUSING the welfare system & welfare fraud. Not for nothing, when I lost my job I was out at 6am every morning driving to job sites & other places of business looking for a job. I in no way expected to sit on my lazy *** and do nothing.
By successful you mean working 40+ hours a week to support a family? That should be NORMAL. Everyone deserves a dignified lifestyle, but it must be earned through hard work. A farmer's crops doesn't grow by him sitting at home watching television. He goes out there each & everyday working hard to make the most of his crops. If he doesn't go out & take care of his crops, no one is going to step in & farm his crops for him. Eventually they will wither & die.
You have me all wrong, I am NOT scapegoating people on food stamps. What I have a problem with is the people fraudulently receiving food stamps and/or the people who take advantage of food stamps. If you are on food stamps, you should shop smart just as if it was your hard earned money. If you do not try to conserve your food stamps, well then that may explain why you are on welfare to begin with. If you can afford an iPhone, gold teeth, cigarettes, & a Cadillac then you most certainly do not need to be receiving food stamps. (and if you don't know, cigarettes here on Long Island cost around $8.45 a pack).
I know what it is like to be poor. As it is I am struggling to make ends meet. I DID lose my job in this economic crisis & I busted my ass every day until I found work. I am not demeaning the poor for being poor, I am demeaning the "poor" who do nothing to better there situation & abusing the welfare system.
You really need to do some research about addiction. It is very clear that you know absolutely nothing about it, have learned nothing about it, and do not care to learn anything about it. For one thing, you wouldn't know an addict if they came up to you and slapped you. You know how I know? Because there are plenty of addicts who just haven't fallen that far yet. They hold jobs, they teach your kids, they treat your own diseases (addiction is a problem among medical professionals--GASP!), they pull you out of burning buildings, they pave your roads, they work right along side you. But because you don't know the first thing about addiction and just want to sit there condemning people, you'll just continue to keep your head in the sand.
But don't take it from me. Take it from the many scientists and medical professionals who have conducted hundreds of studies and dedicated thousands and thousands of research hours to the topic.
[URL="http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/"]Basics.[/URL]
[URL="http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/resources.html"]
Further reading.[/URL]
Now perhaps you did not say "I don't want them to have health care," but the way you complained about them receiving, OMG, DENTAL you sure did make the point clear that you think they don't deserve it.
And dang straight it could be you or someone you love someday. Addiction can happen to anyone, for the simple reason that anyone can become hooked on prescription drugs they receive for legitimate medical treatment. As you sound like a raging conservative, I'll hold Rush Limbaugh up as an example.
Next, you go on about how you were out looking for jobs. How do you know people on welfare aren't? For one thing, people receiving government aid, starting with unemployment, must show that they are making an effort. As plenty of my friends have been through the system (unemployment, some now having to file for further assistance like food stamps), they will tell you that not only is it an unholy pain in the backside, it is one of the most humiliating and degrading things they have ever been through. Why? Because they run into people with suspicious, presumptuous attitudes like yours and are treated like criminals.
And one final thing. Before you go assuming that every nice thing someone on welfare has was bought with their aid money, consider that people on welfare have families. When it happened to someone in my family, someone else in my family who had a nice job at a public utility not only took her in (gasp! more than one family in a house!), but bought her children nice clothes, new sneakers, and toys. I can just imagine someone like you standing behind my family member on line at the grocery: "Yeah, she's got food stamps, but her kids are wearing designer sneakers. She must be a WELFARE QUEEN!"
And that just illustrates why your post is just so wrong on so many levels. You can complain about "welfare queens" all you want, but the fact remains that unless you are the one enforcing the laws governing aid money, you simply do not know who, exactly, they are. Therefore, you do not have the right to judge random people based on what your suspicious little eyes tell you.
Oh, and by the way, those two middle quotes in your response are not from my posts. You are quoting someone else with that.
Last edited by Yzette; 02-10-2010 at 10:00 AM..
Reason: Clarifying who said what.
Rory, if folks like Notti and the OP would just worry about themselves, instead of looking all over trying to find people who might be getting something they aren't, the world would be a much nicer place.
And Long Island would be a much nicer place in particular.
Oh, and Notti? Way to throw out the baby with the bath water. If you don't want anyone to ever get any government assistance for anything, well, let's hope you never get laid off and need to collect unemployment. Better yet, if you do get laid off, put your money where your mouth is and don't file. You clearly don't feel that you are entitled to money from a system you've been paying into your whole working life, so feel free to let someone who understands taxes collect your money.
I doubt that one person in ten who complains about how our system of public assistance works has any detailed knowledge of the eligibility criteria, benefit levels, income and asset standards, time limits, and other basic facts of the system in their own state, not to mention nationwide.
"the economic system is like a pyramid scheme. those on the top "own" so they don't need to do actual work and they make the rules, therefore they get perks. those on the bottom have the crappiest jobs and lowest pay, so that is the reason why they may not want to work or unhappy with their work. those in the middle make pretty decent or enough to take care of themselves and some luxuries."
Ok, I have no problem with rich people, if it were up to me, everybody would be rich. If rich people never work again I don't care, it is when rich people get welfare that my blood boils.
"society creates those on the top, middle and bottom so society is obligated to take care of them all as they collect money from them all in some form or another."
society. who is society, the only person obligated to take care of you is your mother and father until your 18. Why should I have to pay for a druf user to get discounted drugs? Why is society giving money to people who are already rich, why does layman brothers who makes more money in a year than I will in a life, than everyone on my street combined, need us to take care of them.
There are no rights to be taken care of by your neighbour, charity is a nice thing, but should not be forced. The best charity is job creation and that starts with lowering taxes. No nation or people were ever lifted out of poverty through charity, however capitalism has made a country like equitorial guinea in africa now richer than the country who use to colonize it on a per capita basis.
"you assume those in the middle are somehow the moralistic best for just some inherent reason and that's not true. they have the cushier jobs or sitting government dust bunnies etc. "
Maybe that is true, maybe the middle class are overpaid, what I have found is the world is the same everywhere. what I do know is that in no way does taking money from the middle class and redistributing it to other people does not help the situation. If that were the case, then maybe we should just allow haiti and cuba and all the poor countries to come into america and take what they want because by your logic we made them poor so they are entitled to our wealth. No one is entitled to material goods.
"the middle class represents what is best or ideal or balanced and how everyone should live."
No, everyone should not be middle class, people who take lots of risk deserve to be rich, bill gates deserved to be rich because he worked hard for it and made an invention known the world over. I don't deserve the same standard of living as bill gates. Like wise larry the dope fein does not deserve the same standard of living as me. He was smoking dope when i was studying hard. How is that fair that lazy people get more?
"now in a capitalist system, this doesn't seem feasible so you obviously can't blame those on the lowest rung as they pay taxes as well into the system. "
Well techinically speaking the bottom 50% of earners pay 3-4% of taxes if I am not mistaken. Further the lowest 20% actually not only not pay taxes but get free money from the gov't in the form of rebates and so on.
"the homeless and lost are always going to exist because life and any system isn't perfect. just leave them alone and don't begrudge them for eating the food you throw away. they don't cost society much at all. "
I don't, poor people have the right to be as poor as they want. They just should not force me using a man with a gun and handcuffs to go arrest me, who takes away all my liberty under threat of prison, being raped by other prisoners in jail or stabbed in the neck with a shank from behind and thrown in the same prison as murderers for tax evasion. That is where IMO taxes and "social justice" go too far. It is one thing to say help the poor, it is another to throw me in prison if I don't
'expired food donations from grocery stores, a few shelters here and there for them to shower and donated old clothes are a penny in a huge pot.
it's ignorant to assume that people get large welfare checks anyways. if they have a drug habit, they will need to do more than get a welfare check to keep up the habit.
"
Yes but you encourage the behaviour is 1 by giving them free money, 2 your rewarding someone who is able bodied not to work.
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