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Old 02-14-2010, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,981 posts, read 7,180,814 times
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Quote Sandpointian "I was looking at these stats: murder per capita
Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

The FBI estimates that there are approximately 350 million guns in the US. Keep this in mind when examining the crime stats.

And yes, one can buy an AK-47 for $200 fairly easily in a number of states.

Despite so much access to cause instant death, murder rates are only

4.0 times that of Denmark
2.5 times that France
1.5 times that of Finland
It is
1.3 times LESS that of Poland
4.7 times LESS that of Russia

Given the guns and public perception, one would think that US violent crime is 100 times that of Europe. But this is not so."

[/quote]
I'm no mathematician but don't your figures mean the U.S has a murder rate that is 300% more than Denmark, 150% more than France, and 50% more than Finland? We do like to kill folks.

 
Old 02-14-2010, 05:54 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,754,112 times
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learingCA , What 'political purpose' are you referring to ?! Im not a Politician nor want to be one. I dont want my posts to be submitted to The Wall Street Journal for any political consideration either !!! Im just your average Joe who knows full well why America is in severe moral degradation . And im entirely on-topic to the OP .
 
Old 02-14-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,267,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughnwilliams View Post
I'm no mathematician but don't your figures mean the U.S has a murder rate that is 300% more than Denmark, 150% more than France, and 50% more than Finland? We do like to kill folks.
You simply restated what I stated up front. But note that we have 10000% to 100000% more guns. One would think there would be the same amount of murders as that is certainly how we are portrayed.

Actually, most of violent crime is drug-related or domestic with most crime concentrated in a relatively small number of zip codes. So no, Americans in general do not have much interested in killing one another and live at levels of peace comparable to those in low-crime countries...despite all the guns at our disposal.

S.
 
Old 02-14-2010, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,267,669 times
Reputation: 3310
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Unfortunately, the NationMaster statistics lowball the US rate. According to the FBI, the homicide rate in 2008 was 5.4 per 100,000 in the US; not 4.2.
No, but upon reflection, the data was from the last census year, 2000. All other countries need to be adjusted as well.

What we have seen in the US is a concentration of crime in a limited number of zip codes.

Most Americans face very low murder and crime rates despite a plethora of guns and assault knives with which to slaughter one another.

Most Americans are not strung out on drugs, although in certain zip codes it is quite horrible.

Most American girls are not having two babies from two different "men" although in certain zip codes it is not uncommon.

Mean stats are misleading. Better to look at stats that show distribution.
S.
 
Old 02-14-2010, 11:37 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,230,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
learingCA , What 'political purpose' are you referring to ?! Im not a Politician nor want to be one. I dont want my posts to be submitted to The Wall Street Journal for any political consideration either !!! Im just your average Joe who knows full well why America is in severe moral degradation . And im entirely on-topic to the OP .
Just read my post just below your last, "average Joe".

This is what you wrote, sir, in your post:
"WHen America wanted God as its foundation, there was civility and order in society by and large ; since thats been replaced by narcisstic and hedonistic philosophies of our day, the repercussions are played out in american society daily."

There was no time in American history when some average Joes like you for some reason or another did see civility and order in society.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 08:12 AM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,754,112 times
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'This is what you wrote, sir, in your post:
"WHen America wanted God as its foundation, there was civility and order in society by and large ; since thats been replaced by narcisstic and hedonistic philosophies of our day, the repercussions are played out in american society daily."

There was no time in American history when some average Joes like you for some reason or another did see civility and order in society.
'

REPLY: So, how is saying a country that once held dear to godly moral mandates considered 'political' ?! I lived thru the 1950's and have a very good comparison to make with todays current philosophies, attitudes, and entitle-itis ... and this country is much more morally degraded now than ever before in history due in most part to its people either not wanting God to be real (secular humanism) and-or not wanting to submit authority to God (egocentrisism and narcisism) . And im not saying that AMerica ever did experience total morality and civility .., only that it has experienced a very very sharp decline toward the behaviour of forest animals . Never before in U.S. History do we have a populus that either doesnt know basic right from wrong , or, could care less about it. And the OP's insights are very astute of him .
 
Old 02-15-2010, 08:53 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,626,583 times
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^you're plugging lack of religion as the reason and it has already been explained that animal nature's desire to do what it wants will find ways of expression, good or bad.

religion has nothing to do with it. my grandparents were some of the most materialistic people and they are now dead. materialism, greed and all that you see today is not new.

it's naive to not realize people can use religion to justify or interpret however they choose to. the bible also talks about blessings for god's people as well as kings that had lavish lifestyles and supposedly blessed by god or conquering other peoples for god etc. also, there are many televangelists who make lots of money and people who pray to god for material blessings etc.

what does god have to do with it? there are atheists who recycle, care about the environment, live sensibly, are good citizens etc. there are lots of god believing people who cause just as much or more problems. there are criminals who believe in god and the bible or some religion. please get a clue.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,716,788 times
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As everyone remembers from Psychology 101, any organism behaves according to the system of rewards and punishments imposed up on it. Americans are too often punished for doing what we deem to be moral, and rewarded for doing the immoral. That is the fruit we harvest.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 10:59 AM
 
30,873 posts, read 36,822,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Many Americans are civilized but contributing factors toward the mass number of degenerates here are (including but not limited to) :

1. Parents who are apathetic regarding parenting .
2. Parents who have the same mentality so pass it along to their offspring.
3. Parents who dont spend enough time with their kids to teach them right from wrong.
4. Kids who are groomed by our mass media to become disrespectful, inconsiderate, bravado, so as to appear cool.
5. Kids living for the praise of their peers by doing outrageous behaviour including vile language.
6. A societal shift from biblical mandates to post modernism including the top tenet of moral relativism.
7. An attitude of entitle-itis which stems from willful suppresion of ones moral conscience.
8. An attitude of having 'the right' to live / talk / behave as one wishes and using our U.S. Constitution to 'justify' it.
9. An increased propensity of every succeeding generation toward rebellion and a could care less attitude.
10. An ever increasing mentality for total automony at any detrimental expense.
11. TV programs that encourage violence .
12. An ever increasing disdain toward the Creator of the Universe including the teachings of Jesus Christ because they are a fly in ones ointment of living as one likes.
13. Never allowing anyone to have authority over them or importance over them .
14. Cultural philosophies of nihlism .
15. Relentless media encouragement of hedonism and promoting the me, me, me syndrome .
16. Willfuly chosen laziness and apathy .
17. Not much (or no) desire to be set apart from the crowd they run with because the crowd offers them a sense of belonging and (false) worth. IE: Gang involvement.
18 . An engrained hatred and hostile nature because they think the world has done the dirty on them.
19 . Abandonment of a Parent .
20. No Dad around .
21. No Mom around.
22. Extreme resentment due to a tragic incident that occured in their life IE: Abuse, etc...
23. Trying to escape life by engaging in drink or drugs.
24. Sociopathic behavior based on a number of reasons.
25. Not being to find any meaning or purpose to their life.
26. Not wanting to finish living out their life .
27. Not being able to achieve material acquisition in a country that is very materialistic , so they become jealous and get a defeatist attitude.
28. A country that is lacking in moral discipline in all segments of government , federal / state / and local.
29. A country that abandoned 'im my brothers keeper' kind of attitude because being tolerant to others wrongful behaviour (apathy) helps justify their own reprobate minds.

America is only 'the beautiful' now as it pertains to scenic views across the land. I regret you have had poor experiences living in the USA as many others of us have. , but its going to get worse and never better.
I would agree with most of what you say here. I take issue with your posts that relate to Christianity and Christian principles, though. Christianity and Christians do not have a monopoly on how to behave ethically.

Most of the world's major religions and even secular philosophies pretty much espouse similar kinds of principles as Christianity. Many psychologists in the current "positive psychology" movement admit that what they are promoting is the same as what has been promoted by traditional religion.
 
Old 02-15-2010, 11:04 AM
 
30,873 posts, read 36,822,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulpan View Post
They are just subcategory of narcissism, hedonism and nihilism.



You are correct. As for hedonism and nihilism, for a sure. I would guess, narcissism is fairly new, though.
There is actually a book by a psychologist on the rise of narcissism, which I found to be quite interesting:

The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement

Amazon.com: The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement (9781416575986): Jean M. Twenge Ph.D., W. Keith Campbell Ph.D.: Books
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