Should Pedophiles Be Castrated or Microchipped? (middle east, generations, solutions, dollar)

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by whoknowsnow

I disagree, I think this post exposes you as emotionally unequipped to have a rational conversation, and also as an uneducated person. A plethora of research suggests that children do not face psychological trauma due to sexual abuse until it is reinforced socially how "wrong" it is. (Before I'm accused: I am of course not disputing the social method of informing kids of the evils of molestation, nor am I implying that molestation is not wrong.) To suggest that children instinctively recognize sexual abuse as wrong due to some non-social construct (ie a biological predisposition) exposes one as being completely uneducated in the fields of psychology, biology, et al. This is not even controversial in learned circles, no offense.

You are first of all extremely young from all your postings, this is obvious and secondly I doubt you were ever molested as a child. You can't take a little bit you may read in a text book and think it is magically right..Oh how nice it was to be young and think we knew everything..

Nita

[Golem1979]

Who qualifies as a pedophile to everybody here ? Is an 18 year old who has sex with a 15 year old considered a pedophile in your opinion ? To me that is a grey area.

However I 100% agree that a 48 year old for example having sex with a 15 year old is definitely a pedophile. That one to me is clearly black and white with no grey area.

[pinefarm]

I am really a hot 7yr. old.I find jtur88 hot.I want to meet with you.Send me your address on private message.

[JLay36]

Originally Posted by jbub22

Let's get back to the question. It's not about evaluating the crime. The crime has been commited and the person has been convicted. Castration or microchipped? Stop avoiding the question with irrational mumbo jumbo.

Niether quite frankly, because niether is going to stop the person from repeating. The is something mentally wrong with a person that finds this behavior acceptable. And I do not believe they can be rehabilitated. SO..with that being said I think the real answer should be longer prison terms, and in some cases..execution.

[W James III]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

No, you are saying that the harm caused to a child by such activities is minimal and should be disregarded when compared to the actions needed to stop the activity.

No I didn’t say that, you are implying I did and then running with it as your argument which is underhandedly in its tactic to garner support for your views while trying to discredit an opponent, apparently you failed debate class even in high school.

Please cite where I said those words,

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

It could easily be interpreted here that, like another poster earlier in the thread, you're actually defending the rights of the molester and/or saying the cure of stopping him is worse than the offense he is committing. .

Again this a lame attempt at discrediting me with a slanderous statement so that you can run amuck with your faulty agenda and opinions.

Let me say again I am not defending anyone I am debating an issue and looking at all sides.

Please cite where I ever said such nonsense.

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

So he should be allowed to continue or not be harshly punished if he causes no physical harm? This is all society's fault for just not understanding him, right? .

Again cite where I ever said anyone should be able to continue if they don’t cause physical harm, or that it’s all societies fault for not understanding him. That is just asinine you would even suggest I said that, and suggesting I was, is an outright lie. Can’t you debate an issue without the childish innuendos and mudslinging?

What I said was the reason so many of these offenders are on the streets is that the court system decided they were not an eminent danger. If you have an issue with the truth don’t take it up with me, take it up with the judges that let them out.

Originally Posted by NomadScribe

And you have the gall to call me dangerous? .

When anyone advocates, torture and murder, yes I consider them dangerous but that’s my belief, if yours is different so be it.

Originally Posted by NomadScribe

Are you, like another poster, spending way too much time in motel parking lots?

Immature innuendos and trying to derail a thread with personal attacks disguised as questions indicate you can’t hold a debate based on facts and have to resort to such tactics.

Originally Posted by NomadScribe

No. WRONG. A great deal of psychological trauma (and physical trauma) occurs when children are "fondled" and it has nothing to do with society's moral stance on the issue. Children inherently feel it is wrong and if you debate that fact you are a verifiable danger. A child who is curious about their body DOES NOT appreciate an adult's exploration of that curiousity in a sexual way.

Yes I agree a psychological trauma does occur at the time of the violation; however the level of such trauma is different in each case, and is based on several factors.

These factors include (but not limited to) the child’s age, sex, maturity level, type of violation, and home structure, and education.

I never said that there wasn’t any psychological damage at the time of the violation, or that mitigating the type of violation was in order, what I said is that a great deal of the psychological damage is caused after the incident and is also based on society’s views of such acts themselves.

I did NOT suggest that society needed to change their beliefs or was arguing for the defense of offenders I was simply pointing out a fact that societies views play a huge role in the psychological problems victims face, this is not my option this is again based on studies that can be found by doing a simple Google search.

Children often feel self guilt for their attack, or that somehow they did something to warrant their attack. They also know it’s considered “dirty” and this is why there is often shame then associated with their violation.

Fear comes into play when having to report their abuse, especially if it’s a family member and a whole host of other psychological and emotion scenarios. Therefore the fact is that most of the psychological damage arises after the actually incident. The incident is the trigger and although it is a bad trigger even later issues can be far more damaging psychologically such as severe and debilitating depression that can lead to suicide because the stigma of such abuse.

Originally Posted by NomadScribe

By coming on a public forum defending the idea that children are not aware of the implications of molestation really exposes you as a freak.

First I never said that children are not aware of the implications, but I will say depending on their ages they often are unable to fully comprehend them, and again this goes back to their age and level of understanding such things.

I am trying to debate this very sensitive issue based on facts and with a certain level of maturity without emotions getting in the way. If you feel you can’t first ask someone to clarify something that you might possibly have misunderstood or that they didn’t properly clarify and automatically feel justified in resorting to calling someone a freak then your maturity level itself is in question.

Originally Posted by michelleleigh

I have known several people who were molested as children. It really destroys peoples lives, .

I agree and these long lingering issues are what I was referring to as being the largest psychological issues victims. There are a host of others issues I haven’t even mentioned such as eating disorders, self esteem, misplaced aggression, and the list is endless. Again all of these manifest over time and are considered psychological issues caused by the actual trigger event.

An example of how society’s views on sexual abuse plays into this psychological damage is,

“Sex abuse, it’s a nasty bad thing” is what society says (which is true) however most victims automatically then feel they are somehow associated with a nasty bad thing and then feel that are nasty bad people themselves (when in reality they are victims). Some victims never are able to separate the two and overcome these feelings and thoughts and are haunted their entire lives. Even when they can it doesn’t make things any easier.

Originally Posted by michelleleigh

And the creep who did it gets a slap on the wrist. On the whole almost all sexual predators who are adults will never get better they will keep on doing it untill they are made to stop.

Originally Posted by michelleleigh

I say stop giving them special protection while they are serving their sentances.

Made to stop? Special protection?

For me personally speaking when anyone makes a general uneducated knee jerk statement like this, for me I shake my head and consider the intelligent debate is over.

Made to stop? Until the "cure all" pill is available, what do you propose?

“Special protection while serving their sentences” So my honest question to you is, do you support violence against them while in jail? If so where do you draw the line? So can cops be given protection when they break the law and are sent to prision and SO shouldnt becuse it s a moral crime? Have you ever considered they are being protected from ignorant people who can justify abuse or harm even if it’s in their own mind to right a wrong?

(Shaking my head and considering this debate thread a lost cause)

[W James III]

Originally Posted by jbub22

W James III and WhoknowsSnow are way off. "A plethora of research suggests that children do not face psychological trauma due to sexual abuse." What books are you reading? Rational conversion about what? Your research!

"To suggest that children instinctively recognize sexual abuse as wrong due to some non-social construct (ie a biological predisposition) exposes one as being completely uneducated in the fields of psychology, biology, et al." Yes, YOU!!!

You better back that car up and cite where I ever said:

“A plethora of research suggests that children do not face psychological trauma due to sexual abuse."

I don’t appreciate you misleading the board using my name with statements you claim I said when I never said such a statement, so either cite the source where I made such a claim or make a public correction.

Originally Posted by jbub22

Let's get back to the question. It's not about evaluating the crime. The crime has been commited and the person has been convicted. Castration or microchipped? Stop avoiding the question with irrational mumbo jumbo.

Guess you missed my post back on post #96 but here it is for you and others who don’t take time to read through an entire debate and just want to chime in.

Originally Posted by W James III

There seemed to be several sub-conversations within this thread, all a little distracting and all off the original topic of either castrating or implanting a chip and this is where all the confusion came in.

Originally Posted by W James III

I am not for implanting chips into sex offenders; this will only track them but not prevent them from any behavior.

Castration although proven to reduce sex drives in some people doesn’t remove sex drives in all people. studies also indicate men who are castrated suffer great health problems in other areas and its often the tax payer who has to pay these additional medical expenses even when this might not cut down the offenders desire to have sex.

[W James III]

Originally Posted by Golem1979

Who qualifies as a pedophile to everybody here ? Is an 18 year old who has sex with a 15 year old considered a pedophile in your opinion ? To me that is a grey area.

First a pedophile is anyone who has an attraction to prepubescent children as defined in the DSMIV

Someone can be a pedophile and not be a sex offender. Its only when they cross the line and act on their attraction when they become a sex offender, but in reality they have always been a pedophile. There are many pedofiles who never act out.

When you examine the cause of their (sex offenders) actions it’s often attributed to behavior control issues, and this is why almost all treatment for sex offenders is behavioral modification.

The grey area you’re referring to is being referred to unofficially as a hebephilia since it still hasn’t been introduced into the DSMIV

Hebephilia refers to the sexual preference for pubescent individuals; the term was introduced by Glueck (1955).[1] It differs from ephebophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for individuals in later adolescence,[2] and from pedophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for prepubescent children.[3] While individuals with a sexual preference for adults (i.e., teleiophiles) may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals,[4] the term hebephilia is reserved for those who prefer pubescent-aged individuals over adults. It refers to Hebe, a Greek goddess of youth, often described as a girl entering womanhood. Debate is ongoing over whether hebephilia is a psychological disorder, with Ray Blanchard arguing for its inclusion in the DSM-V.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

Originally Posted by Golem1979

However I 100% agree that a 48 year old for example having sex with a 15 year old is definitely a pedophile. That one to me is clearly black and white with no grey area.

After reading the above definition of a hebephile and a pedophile would you consider you might reclassify your diagnosis of a 48year old man and a 15 year old?
This is not me suggesting anyting odd, its straight from the book.

A 14 - 15 year old is not prepubescent so how can anyone having sex with anyone who is 14-15 be called a pedophile as defined by the DSMIV ?

[jbub22]

W James III-Oh no, I will not back up. Matter of fact, the gas pedal is floored. I am not mistaken, I intentionally lumped you togethor because of your post #114 and other posts where you said counseling works. Give me a break!

By the way, please continue to cut and paste ten or more articles in one post. I just love reading your mess. The organization reminds me of a Charlie Brown character.

[W James III]

Originally Posted by jbub22

W James III-Oh no, I will not back up. Matter of fact, the gas pedal is floored. I am not mistaken, I intentionally lumped you togethor because of your post #114 and other posts where you said counseling works. Give me a break!

By the way, please continue to cut and paste ten or more articles in one post. I just love reading your mess. The organization reminds me of a Charlie Brown character.

I invite you to go back and re-read the last few pages of posts; apparently you are missing something driving so fast with the gas pedal to the floor.

In post #114 which you reference there is no mention in that post or in any of my posts where “I” have said that counseling works or that there is “A plethora of research suggests that children do not face psychological trauma due to sexual abuse." The fact is I never said any such things, so get your facts straight before you post misinformation.

Your refusal to clearly debate in a mature manner and respond to a direct request to cite a source for your claims against another member erodes your credibility. Again I will ask you to site a source where I said any of those things, and until you will stop the mudslinging and properly respond you make yourself look like the one who has the issues.

As for making a derogatory comment regarding the “organized” way I address each person’s post that is directed at me and then claiming it’s a mess, is an oxymoron isn’t it?

I will say at least I am responding to each and every post that’s directed at me and addressing each point that has been made, something you can’t seem to grasp or even do when asked to cite a simple source for your claims against me.

I will be waiting but won’t be holding my breath

[lifelongMOgal]

The fate of pedophiles should be dertermined by the parents of the children sexually attacked, violated and sometimes murdered. Period.