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Show me the list of communist countries you have visited, where you have seen this. This is not a word game. Show me the list. If you say "I know this to be a fact" and you don't, that's a word game.
Meanwhile, I'll start my list of capitalist countries where Ive seen hungry people begging for food, or going to volunteer soup kitchens, or even (gulp) receiving food stamps or surplus commodities from the government:
1. United States of America.
You are silly with your drivel about "word games", and believe it or not, that is the sanest thing you have said. It only goes downhill from there.
Everyone is aware of the lines in the Soviet Union to wait for a stipend of bread or meat. In Korea, they have taken to eating tree bark. This is known information (at least for those of who don't have our heads "up and locked" in our backsides.
And I suppose nobody goes hungry in any commie countries (not officially, anway).
America generates the most wealth, for the most people, and it isn't communism that does it, it is freedom and capitalism.
Now go away son, you bother me. I need to deal with adults.
And I suppose nobody goes hungry in any commie countries (not officially, anway).
Nobody said that NOBODY goes hungry, but I've been in about 20 countries that were either communist or extreme socialist, and I never saw anybody going hungry. Ive also been in about 20 more sad and crumbling capitalist countries, where it is actually embarrassing to eat in a public place because of all the hungry people staring at you and begging you for food.
I lived in a communist country, for four months, and never saw a single hungry person, and I never saw a single homeless person, nor a single beggar.
When you are grown up enough to have some experience in the world, come back and we'll talk. I mean it. Put down your junior high school geography book and go and see what the real world is like. I bet you weren't even born yet when there was a Soviet Union.
- - - - - - -
In a way, I agree - the 'system' doesn't matter - people throughout the world have the same immediate goals and aspirations - the most important of which is the freedom to choose . . .
Starting with "What shall I do today?"
Where the problems arise within every group and every system is that each individuals 'ambitions' conflict with someone else within that group.
Then each group conflicts with another and so it goes . .
'Capitalist' or 'Socialist', it doesn't matter! It might have been Ted Turner who, speaking of his wealth said, "It's an empty bag!" Explaining, he's always been obsessed with 'acquiring' - but once you get it (whatever IT is) it's not what you expected. (Much like marrying Jane Fonda).
What I see, from the highest in our society, to the ruler of a primitive 'tribe', to the leader of a gang, to the 'bossman' in a homeless group, is the very same thing - That's the pursuit of POWER!
No system is 'right', No person is 'right'.
If you live by, and respect the Golden Rule, you'll have no problem understanding your place.
Write this down and commit it to memory - teach your children, friends, neighbors and colleagues.
In case you don't know, the "Golden Rule" says simply, "The guy with the gold - Rules!"
That's all we need to know . . . . .
The system does matter in this sense. Which may be more effective in the people having a better chance of living a life they want. That is the central point as far as I am concerned.
There is where I look at people around the world and see what system they go to in trying to make a better life for them and their loved ones.
I am not trying to prove which system is more benevolent or which one may not have corruption, simply which one may be better or more effective.
Power? That goes without saying. I know power is what drives a lot of people. Power can be and is very destructive BUT also has been used to do good.
The guy with the gold rules. That is often very true. But how does he or she rule? That is the point. Is he ruling with not an iota of care for those he rules? There are many people with gold that rule and do good to others.
Example: There are many rich people that may own large corporations. Why do they keep trying to make more money than they will ever use themselves? Does it really matter? I do not care of their intents for making money. Do you think I care if they gave scholarship money to my daughter to simply look good or for fame or whatever? No, not at all.
Do you think that a family that may recieve money from a corporation to take care of the medical needs of a child care what is the intent of the donation? I do not think they do at all. Do you see people getting help from rich people if they give money to look good and then not accept it?
Many people do not have to use their money in creating jobs and keep listening to people like you how greedy they are, how bad they are, etc. Many could simply keep their money and live the life they want and not put up with all negative publicity.
One last example: Jerry Lewis was interviewed by Phil Donahue in his talk show. He kept telling Jerry Lewis about large corporations ulterior motives to donate money to his telethon. Jerry Lewis kept answering he did not care the motives. He cared the money helped people.
At the end of the next telethon Jerry Lewis gave a speech saying how happy he was and thankful of the donations and did not care what the Phil Donahues of the world said.
You can keep sitting there pointing the finger at all the greedy and selfish people. Sure, they do exist. But is also good to point the finger at those that have money and power and do good. There are those around too.
Also, sitting around complaining about the world around us is not as good as us getting up and doing something about the things we can change and make this world a better place to be.
[quote=elamigo;13520269]There are many rich people that may own large corporations. Why do they keep trying to make more money than they will ever use themselves? Does it really matter? I do not care of their intents for making money. Do you think I care if they gave scholarship money to my daughter to simply look good or for fame or whatever? No, not at all.
Do you think that a family that may recieve money from a corporation to take care of the medical needs of a child care what is the intent of the donation? I do not think they do at all. Do you see people getting help from rich people if they give money to look good and then not accept it?
-------------------------
A key point is missing here. In a free society, capitalists make money by meeting the needs of the people who voluntarily buy their goods or services. (I'm not talking about monopoly markets or bastardized government/private corrupt markets.) The money is the by-product of meeting the needs of people. Bill Gates and the productivity revolution he helped create and sustain, lifted more people out of poverty around the world than all government welfare programs in the history of the world, combined. He is one of the richest people in the world because he has been one of the most valuable to the rest of us.
Gate's philanthropy in recent years is wonderful, but cannot hope to match the good his capitalist career created.
Before anyone jumps on this, consider: in 1985, the purchase of the leading spreadsheet program, a good word processor, and a relational database cost about $2,000 in total. The user had to learn separate programming or macro languages to use the spreadsheet and database. None of the programs talked to each other. NONE of these were made by Microsoft. By 2000, you could buy Microsoft Office for $99 when you bought a computer. The programs were a thousand times better than in 1985, and they talked to each other, and you didn't have to go to school in order to learn how to use them. And the price was 95% lower than in 1985.
Gates got rich by making things better for everybody else. Capitalism does not need philanthropy as a justification; it is the most moral form of human organization because one must serve others in order to prosper.
You haven't heard about the insurance reform bill, have you?
Ouch! "Health stamps" working in the manner of food stamps would have been a cleaner solution, as food stamps have not resulted in excessive government involvement in the retail grocery business, or disruption to everybody else.
. . . . . . Many people do not have to use their money in creating jobs and keep listening to people like you how greedy they are, how bad they are, etc.
. . . . You can keep sitting there pointing the finger at all the greedy and selfish people.. . . . Also, sitting around complaining about the world around us . . . . . You have a great day.
El Amigo
- I'm writin' and you're readin' but, somehow, the message got scrambled!
- I've read & re-read my post looking for the 'complaining' part or anywhere where I said or implied that prosperous or powerful people are 'greedy' or 'bad' or 'selfish'.
- My intended point was that, life is a lot more manageable (not necessarily 'easier') if you know the rules.
- And, as stated, the rule is "The guy with the gold, rules".
- All else being equal, the only way for me to make MORE money, is to take it from my employees.
- Why do you think 'everything' is made in China these days?
- Even in the USA, we have the likes of 'Disney' & 'WalMart' (and many others), who, never satisfied, cut their workers hours and pay scale and reward themselves with more and more millions of dollars.
- Wanna go surfing? You either ride-the-wave or it'll crush you!
- That's life, develop the skills to stay on top, or get beaten down.
- I don't know much about the Boy Scouts Organization (or anything else), but one thing they have right is, "Be prepared!"
- It's not that complicated. - To survive in the game you gotta know the rules.
There are many rich people that may own large corporations. Why do they keep trying to make more money than they will ever use themselves? Does it really matter? I do not care of their intents for making money. Do you think I care if they gave scholarship money to my daughter to simply look good or for fame or whatever? No, not at all.
Do you think that a family that may recieve money from a corporation to take care of the medical needs of a child care what is the intent of the donation? I do not think they do at all. Do you see people getting help from rich people if they give money to look good and then not accept it?
-------------------------
A key point is missing here. In a free society, capitalists make money by meeting the needs of the people who voluntarily buy their goods or services. (I'm not talking about monopoly markets or bastardized government/private corrupt markets.) The money is the by-product of meeting the needs of people. Bill Gates and the productivity revolution he helped create and sustain, lifted more people out of poverty around the world than all government welfare programs in the history of the world, combined. He is one of the richest people in the world because he has been one of the most valuable to the rest of us.
Gate's philanthropy in recent years is wonderful, but cannot hope to match the good his capitalist career created.
Before anyone jumps on this, consider: in 1985, the purchase of the leading spreadsheet program, a good word processor, and a relational database cost about $2,000 in total. The user had to learn separate programming or macro languages to use the spreadsheet and database. None of the programs talked to each other. NONE of these were made by Microsoft. By 2000, you could buy Microsoft Office for $99 when you bought a computer. The programs were a thousand times better than in 1985, and they talked to each other, and you didn't have to go to school in order to learn how to use them. And the price was 95% lower than in 1985.
Gates got rich by making things better for everybody else. Capitalism does not need philanthropy as a justification; it is the most moral form of human organization because one must serve others in order to prosper.
I did not bring philantropy to justify capitalism. I simply brought it up for those that only concentrate on people that have become rich an powerful and often get demonized for being what they are now. In other words to bring the other side of the coin of those that have achieve a lot under capitalism.
Good points, thanks.
- I'm writin' and you're readin' but, somehow, the message got scrambled!
- I've read & re-read my post looking for the 'complaining' part or anywhere where I said or implied that prosperous or powerful people are 'greedy' or 'bad' or 'selfish'.
- My intended point was that, life is a lot more manageable (not necessarily 'easier') if you know the rules.
- And, as stated, the rule is "The guy with the gold, rules".
- All else being equal, the only way for me to make MORE money, is to take it from my employees.
- Why do you think 'everything' is made in China these days?
- Even in the USA, we have the likes of 'Disney' & 'WalMart' (and many others), who, never satisfied, cut their workers hours and pay scale and reward themselves with more and more millions of dollars.
- Wanna go surfing? You either ride-the-wave or it'll crush you!
- That's life, develop the skills to stay on top, or get beaten down.
- I don't know much about the Boy Scouts Organization (or anything else), but one thing they have right is, "Be prepared!"
- It's not that complicated. - To survive in the game you gotta know the rules.
Well, I guess I simply had a brain cramp, sorry. I admit I probably got tangled up with so many message of people so hung up on the selfish and greedy rich people and corporations and blame capitalism for the perils of the world.
I got your points, thanks.
You have a great day.
El Amigo
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