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There are MANY posts out there...I will attach only one more..my point is made and proven. YOU seem to be the only stating mere opinion. Prove YOUR point that it DOESN'T affect the children. I can prove plenty it does!
Studies have also found that children from polygamous families
may be at a greater risk of several harmful effects. For example,
there is ‘[c]onsiderable research that children of polygamous
families experience a higher incidence of marital conflict, family
violence, and family disruptions than do children of monogamous
families’ (Elbedour, et al 2002).
Mostly what I've read is that there are higher risks of family dysfunction in a polygymous union. To me, that sounds reasonable. However, is that grounds to actaully ban the practice? Children from low socio-economic backgrounds have those same risks. Should people like that be allowed to have children? If so, why? The risks to the children are considerably higher than average.
Location: The Formerly Golden State-up to our tookas in debt
90 posts, read 223,100 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith
What's so wrong with polygamy if all the partners are adult and consent to it? Yes it's illegal, but on moral grounds, what makes it so wrong?
Polygamy is wrong on so many counts, but the number one reason is that women [i]always get the worst of it!! I don't care if it is one woman with 12 men, or 1 man with 12 womenthe woman/women will always end up fixing the meals, doing the cleaning, laundry, etc. The bulk of the relationship is always on the female. And then, there is the Mormon bed trick-the wives competing for those large testicles you are so enamored of. No woman in a polygamous "marriage" will ever be valued for herself. EVER! If you want multiple bed partners-be my guest. But don't try to dress up your fantasies in some pseudo-liberal, I'm-so-modern-and-cool theology. By the way-the Muslim fellow can have multiple wives-up to 5. But, every wife is entitled to EXACTLY THE SAME BENEFITS. Meaning, wive number 1 cannot get a Lexus and a mansion, while wife number 2 gets the Chevy and a crappy condo. The local Imam will give HER the divorce!
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 05-29-2010 at 06:33 AM..
Reason: Personal attack
There are MANY posts out there...I will attach only one more..my point is made and proven. YOU seem to be the only stating mere opinion. Prove YOUR point that it DOESN'T affect the children. I can prove plenty it does!
]
You have only proved that you can google selectively. In what country was Elbadour's polygamy research done? If you want to say you have "proved" anything, you at least have to show whether your proof is relevant to our society.
The only reason children of polygamous families in the US have had their lives disrupted is because the government and do-gooders bash the doors down in the middle of the night and rip the kids out of their beddie-byes and ship them off to foster homes in their jammies, and they never see their brothers, sisters or parents again.
Polygamy is wrong on so many counts, but the number one reason is that women [i]always get the worst of it!! I don't care if it is one woman with 12 men, or 1 man with 12 womenthe woman/women will always end up fixing the meals, doing the cleaning, laundry, etc. The bulk of the relationship is always on the female. And then, there is the Mormon bed trick-the wives competing for those large testicles you are so enamored of. No woman in a polygamous "marriage" will ever be valued for herself. EVER! If you want multiple bed partners-be my guest. But don't try to dress up your fantasies in some pseudo-liberal, I'm-so-modern-and-cool theology. By the way-the Muslim fellow can have multiple wives-up to 5. But, every wife is entitled to EXACTLY THE SAME BENEFITS. Meaning, wive number 1 cannot get a Lexus and a mansion, while wife number 2 gets the Chevy and a crappy condo. The local Imam will give HER the divorce!
I only want monogamous relationships, but I like them to follow traditional gender roles. What does it matter if it's one or five? It matters, because I couldn't afford five, it's hard enough affording the one.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 05-29-2010 at 06:33 AM..
Reason: Edited quoted text
I would argue that anyone making under 100,000 a year at this point, isn't financially independent.
However, at least your post has substance, and not just conjecture. Thanks for that.
I look at it this way. With a 3 adult household, where two adults work, and one stays at home, you can gain more ground. We are already in a world where stay at home moms are scarce to non existent. Yet, its better for children to have one, wouldn't you agree?
So, a polygyny relationship would answer that problem. A man, and one of his wives could work. While one wife stays home, and raises the family.
No one is getting slave labor, or wanting a Harem, it just makes sense to me in this economic times.
And some women, not all, don't want to work outside of the home. Regardless of what some people here may actually believe. And yes, you can hire a sitter, or a nanny, or whatever, but they cost money to.
Now, in a polyandry relationship, you could have two men outside the home working, while the wife stays home to tend to things there. While that may work for some, its not for me. And, as I said before, if you'd like to have several children, lets say 6, it would be easier to do that in a polygyny relationship, imo.
I understand some people here think I'm objectifying women, I'm not, love women, couldn't respect them more. If someone wants to work, instead of having children, good for them. However, I do know there are some women whose only dream in life is to be a housewife. In todays economy, that leaves them three choices.
a. Find someone who makes so much money, you can do that. (not likely, lets be honest)
b. Live off of welfare, in a poor state of affairs, in a bad neighborhood.
or
c. Live in a poly situation, whichever one works for them, and have the nice place, the nice things, and the ability to stay at home, and just be a mom.
Umm...let's see
1) MOST Americans make under $100k a year. Some years I've made more than that,some years much less.
2) Most minority children have never had the luxury of having a "stay at home" mom..so no, I wouldn't agree that having one would be better.
Having a happy,mentally and emotionally stable one would be the IDEAL situation. After that...things have to be flexible.
3) In this situation, wouldn't the partner that stays at home and forgoes business and educational opportunities make themselves the weaker partner in the relationship? What if the arrangement disintegrates or one partner dies? Where would that leave the stay at home?
4) Women who "dream" about being a housewife are living the same delusion as women who "dream" about being a princess. The competition out there is fierce and the cost of living is high. Men are attracted to women that stimulate them and most are adult enough to realize that TWO incomes are more important than one and having feeling of being the "bread winner."
IMHO, a housewife is something that TV made glamorous and is seen an ideal by lazy and unmotivated women. And who wants a lazy and unmotivated woman?
5) Multiple relationships almost certainly require MORE energy and effort than traditional ones. Why work harder and, in the end, likely receive fewer results?
If it is legal in your area to be in that type of relationship and it works for you...then cool.
Personally, I don't see any benefits and a host of negatives in going down that road.
1) MOST Americans make under $100k a year. Some years I've made more than that,some years much less.
And you have probably struggled at lots of times to make ends meet, can't afford the things you want, and can't get by. Our money isn't what is used to be. 100,000 today, is like making 50,000 in 1980, not that long ago.
That doesn't even securely put you in the middle class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
2) Most minority children have never had the luxury of having a "stay at home" mom..so no, I wouldn't agree that having one would be better.
Having a happy,mentally and emotionally stable one would be the IDEAL situation. After that...things have to be flexible.
And lets look at the minority numbers. A large part of our prisons are filled with minority inmates. When you drive down ghettos and slums, who's there, minorities mostly. When you go to the public housing area of town, what groups do you see sitting around? Minorities mostly.
I'm not saying that to be mean, but lets face reality here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
3) In this situation, wouldn't the partner that stays at home and forgoes business and educational opportunities make themselves the weaker partner in the relationship? What if the arrangement disintegrates or one partner dies? Where would that leave the stay at home?
God no, in a family, everyones contribution is equal.
And, as I said before, I wouldn't choose a wife who wanted to get an education and work outside. I'd choose a partner who wanted to stay at home, and be a house wife. There are women out there like this, I've meet some. And no, I wouldn't find a 18 year old girl for this. I'd find a woman, in her 30's probably, who had made up her mind, and is mature enough to make up her own mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
4) Women who "dream" about being a housewife are living the same delusion as women who "dream" about being a princess. The competition out there is fierce and the cost of living is high. Men are attracted to women that stimulate them and most are adult enough to realize that TWO incomes are more important than one and having feeling of being the "bread winner."
IMHO, a housewife is something that TV made glamorous and is seen an ideal by lazy and unmotivated women. And who wants a lazy and unmotivated woman?
Really? My grandmother was a stay at home mom for her three children, and me. That woman worked all day long, non stop, until she went to bed.
What a sexist thing to say, that unless you're making money, you're worthless.
Waltham, MA, May 3rd, 2006 -- Salary.com,Inc., the compensation experts, announced today the 2006 update to their valuation of a Stay at Home Mom's job and for the first time addressed the question of what a Working Mom's job is worth. Salary.com consulted with Stay at Home and Working Moms and determined the top 10 jobs that make up a mom's job description. If paid, Stay at Home Moms would earn $134,121 annually (up from 2005's salary of $131,471). Working Moms would earn $85,876 annually for the "mom job" portion of their work, in addition to their actual "work job" salary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
5) Multiple relationships almost certainly require MORE energy and effort than traditional ones. Why work harder and, in the end, likely receive fewer results?
If it is legal in your area to be in that type of relationship and it works for you...then cool.
Personally, I don't see any benefits and a host of negatives in going down that road.
Any relationship takes energy. Love is what make it worth it, and the feeling of satisfaction you get at the end of the day.
And as I said, its not for everyone, it may not be for me in the end. However, I would like to try, and with a lot of effort, time, and love, I know I can make it work.
And you have probably struggled at lots of times to make ends meet, can't afford the things you want, and can't get by. Our money isn't what is used to be. 100,000 today, is like making 50,000 in 1980, not that long ago.
That doesn't even securely put you in the middle class.
And lets look at the minority numbers. A large part of our prisons are filled with minority inmates. When you drive down ghettos and slums, who's there, minorities mostly. When you go to the public housing area of town, what groups do you see sitting around? Minorities mostly.
I'm not saying that to be mean, but lets face reality here.
God no, in a family, everyones contribution is equal.
And, as I said before, I wouldn't choose a wife who wanted to get an education and work outside. I'd choose a partner who wanted to stay at home, and be a house wife. There are women out there like this, I've meet some. And no, I wouldn't find a 18 year old girl for this. I'd find a woman, in her 30's probably, who had made up her mind, and is mature enough to make up her own mind.
Really? My grandmother was a stay at home mom for her three children, and me. That woman worked all day long, non stop, until she went to bed.
What a sexist thing to say, that unless you're making money, you're worthless.
Waltham, MA, May 3rd, 2006 -- Salary.com,Inc., the compensation experts, announced today the 2006 update to their valuation of a Stay at Home Mom's job and for the first time addressed the question of what a Working Mom's job is worth. Salary.com consulted with Stay at Home and Working Moms and determined the top 10 jobs that make up a mom's job description. If paid, Stay at Home Moms would earn $134,121 annually (up from 2005's salary of $131,471). Working Moms would earn $85,876 annually for the "mom job" portion of their work, in addition to their actual "work job" salary.
Any relationship takes energy. Love is what make it worth it, and the feeling of satisfaction you get at the end of the day.
And as I said, its not for everyone, it may not be for me in the end. However, I would like to try, and with a lot of effort, time, and love, I know I can make it work.
Your posting is so full of factual and logical fallacies, I'm tempted to believe that it's a troll posting.
Polygamy has more to do than with your "Grandmother" being a "stay at home" mom.
And,BTW,did you ask if she WANTED to be a stay at home mom?
Or was the only option available to her?
I'm not sure anybody makes the logical leap from a multi-party social/sexual relationship to women being "stay at home" mothers.
As a matter of fact most the polygamous relationship I have read about in Utah and Arizona involving the WOMEN working and/or getting some type of Resistance and the MAN staying at home and acting as the "leader of the household" or some such nonsense.
You have only proved that you can google selectively. In what country was Elbadour's polygamy research done? If you want to say you have "proved" anything, you at least have to show whether your proof is relevant to our society.
The only reason children of polygamous families in the US have had their lives disrupted is because the government and do-gooders bash the doors down in the middle of the night and rip the kids out of their beddie-byes and ship them off to foster homes in their jammies, and they never see their brothers, sisters or parents again.
jtur88 - You are the one who brought the muslim ideals into this debate, so your challenge is really useless because it would be you that would need to show valid fact (or a google search) to disprove the studies I posted. You are citing as much in opinion and myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Any relationship takes energy. Love is what make it worth it, and the feeling of satisfaction you get at the end of the day.
And as I said, its not for everyone, it may not be for me in the end. However, I would like to try, and with a lot of effort, time, and love, I know I can make it work.
Memphis, you proved exactly what I argued this whole thread...Sure you would give it your all to start with, YOU WOULD TRY IT...but you just stated yourself....it may not be for you in the end! So who would suffer here for your selfish ways...THE KIDS YOU REARED!
And to those who keep asking about couples with kids or any other family unit with kids...I am STILL for the kids. Memphis is not talking about entering relationship here with INTENT TO LOVE AND STAY, on the offset right here he just stated, I Don't know if in the end it will be for me...let me try it out! You are not trying out your favorite Corvette here Memphis...these are lives.
Of course, these are MY opinions. This thread could only loosely be based on fact. I have a right to my opinion and to post it as much as the rest of you. Sorry I don't agree, but that is the debate. I have posted "something" to support my opinion, but I have seen no one who opposes post any studies or research to show it does NOT affect the children in the way I have proported it would.
Why is it wrong....THE KIDS!!! Keep it to the adults, without procreation, and go for it! (Even though I don't agree, you would then be making adult decisions). Have a great life!
jtur88 - You are the one who brought the muslim ideals into this debate, so your challenge is really useless because it would be you that would need to show valid fact (or a google search) to disprove the studies I posted. You are citing as much in opinion and myself.
Memphis, you proved exactly what I argued this whole thread...Sure you would give it your all to start with, YOU WOULD TRY IT...but you just stated yourself....it may not be for you in the end! So who would suffer here for your selfish ways...THE KIDS YOU REARED!
And to those who keep asking about couples with kids or any other family unit with kids...I am STILL for the kids. Memphis is not talking about entering relationship here with INTENT TO LOVE AND STAY, on the offset right here he just stated, I Don't know if in the end it will be for me...let me try it out! You are not trying out your favorite Corvette here Memphis...these are lives.
Of course, these are MY opinions. This thread could only loosely be based on fact. I have a right to my opinion and to post it as much as the rest of you. Sorry I don't agree, but that is the debate. I have posted "something" to support my opinion, but I have seen no one who opposes post any studies or research to show it does NOT affect the children in the way I have proported it would.
Why is it wrong....THE KIDS!!! Keep it to the adults, without procreation, and go for it! (Even though I don't agree, you would then be making adult decisions). Have a great life!
How is that any different from the people who get married, have children, determine marriage isn't for them, and get divorced? Should divorce be illegal too, since it disrupts the life of children?
How is that any different from the people who get married, have children, determine marriage isn't for them, and get divorced? Should divorce be illegal too, since it disrupts the life of children?
Did you miss this statement in my last post:
And to those who keep asking about couples with kids or any other family unit with kids...I am STILL for the kids.
I feel the same way about the kids of families in divorce. I also stated that one difference here is that Memphis is acknowledging and admitting that he is entering into this as a "try it on for size" affair. I simply contend you try it on for size without bringing children into the mix and spare the kids what you have admitted you are "trying out". Most people marry because they are making the commitment. They are not TRYING it out. Knowing that up front is a REAL difference! Regardless, I am not for the children getting hurt! And again, it is MO. I am still waiting to see someone post proof or articles on research in the US or elsewhere that shows how polygamy is bringing positivity to the mix, especially related to the children....anyone?
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the woman/women will always end up fixing the meals, doing the cleaning, laundry, etc. The bulk of the relationship is always on the female. And then, there is the Mormon bed trick-the wives competing for those large testicles you are so enamored of. 
No woman in a polygamous "marriage" will ever be valued for herself. EVER! If you want multiple bed partners-be my guest. But don't try to dress up your fantasies in some pseudo-liberal, I'm-so-modern-and-cool theology. By the way-the Muslim fellow can have multiple wives-up to 5. But, every wife is entitled to EXACTLY THE SAME BENEFITS. Meaning, wive number 1 cannot get a Lexus and a mansion, while wife number 2 gets the Chevy and a crappy condo. The local Imam will give HER the divorce!
