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Polygamy that is truly consenual, and really amoung adults who are capable of making their own decisions, should not be illegal. Those who state, quite correctly, that the face and perception of polygamy comes from cultures where misogony is rampant are quite correct.
I have always felt that I would be very happy as a co-wife, with a loving and willing husband and co-wife. Many of my most emotionally intimate relationships have been with women, and I believe that with people who do not tend towards jealousy, and who can make a real committment to two other people, that might be an ideal solution to the problems of lonliness and isolation posed by a "modern" society.
However, given what you've stated in the quoted portion, I'd have to ask WHY?
A man cannot hold a woman prisoner in our country, let alone seven of them (let's not explore extremes). And given that with most willing marriages a woman has a man's ear, and even in a bad marriage can make herself heard much of the time (again, not talking extremes here), just being polygamous doesn't necessarily make the man THE provider -- although I'll admit readily only a wealthier man would likely take on multiple wives.
So the question would be WHY the bolded portion would be true? I can see where her personal power would decrease, but that would be somewhat true of a monogamous marriage as well. What I don't see is where her power as a woman would diminish.
There are several reasons that I see for this. I would like to say generally, though, that personal power and economic power are very much connected; and that power isn't just confined to one's legal right to leave.
We can talk about ideal situations, but in reality, wives in a polygamous relationship compete for the husband -- they compete for his attention, they compete for his ear, they compete for privileges, and indeed, since polygamy is generally tied to wealth, they compete for money and goods as well. This doesn't mean there is outright animosity there, but competition for the husband is still a major feature of the wives' relationship to each other. So while in a monogamous relationship, some power is indeed given up by both partners, in a polygamous relationship, a woman's power is further reduced by the competition with other wives, while the husband is actually empowered by that same competition.
If a woman were to leave a polygamous marriage, she would likely not get custody of her children. Why? Because, not only she and her husband, but also the other wives will have a claim to the children. That's two claims against one. Furthermore, when a monogamous marriage is dissolved, the whole family unit is thus dismantled. In a polygamous marriage, by contrast, one wife's divorce will still leave the family unit mostly intact, and the husband with his remaining wives will have a very, very strong argument that it's in the best interest of the children to remain in his and their other "mothers"' care for the sake of continuity, because their living arrangements will be pretty much the same as before their biological mother left.
The power to leave is a power because the threat of leaving can incentivize people to change their behavior. In a polygamous relationship, the threat of a divorce by one of the wives isn't nearly as big a deal as it would be in a monogamous marriage. From the husband's point of view, he'll keep the kids, and he still has 3, 4, 6 other wives. Even if he genuinely cares for the wife who might leave, there is still considerable continuity in his home to soften the blow if she does. As far as the co-wives are concerned, they might actually welcome the idea of one of them dropping out. If one of the wives leaves, those junior to her will move up the marital ladder; there will be more husband-time for each wife, more money, etc. Since the relationship between the wives is fundamentally competitive, the threat of a divorce probably will not convince the other wives to act better.
Finally, there is the distribution of privileges in a polygamous marriage. Who should go out to work and who should stay home with the kids? Generally, based on experience, the first wife has the most power and the most privileges, despite being the oldest and perhaps not attracting the husband sexually as much as the younger wives. In fact, as far as I know, the philosophy in "fair" polygamous marriages seems to be that the older wives get compensated for decreased sexual attention with money and various other perks; in other words, privileges are accorded on the basis of seniority -- not aptitude or even merit. Thus, when a young wife enters a polygamous marriage as the nth wife, she starts at the bottom -- bearing children, taking care of children (both her own and other wives'), doing housework, etc., while the older wives, who have paid their dues, go to school or to work. (In fact, when some Western women say that they wouldn't mind having a co-wife, I think what they have in mind is a junior wife who is basically a maid and a babysitter.) It may seem fair, but the downside from the women's point of view is that, because they stay at home caring not just for the couple and their children, but for a large household with multiple wives and numerous children -- their employability thus suffers a huge setback.
So even if the wife has the legal right to leave -- practically, she may have to leave without her children and without much of an ability to make a living. Factor in the legal changes that are likely to take place as I've described, and leaving may become a mostly academic option.
Morality and religion form the basis of most of our laws, including laws against theft and homicide. Who we do or do not allow to marry -- apart from basing such laws on race or ethnicity -- is simply a matter of public consensus. Whether that consensus is based on religion, morality or anything else, doesn't matter.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 08-06-2010 at 12:23 PM..
Reason: Edited out reference to deleted post
There are several reasons that I see for this. I would like to say generally, though, that personal power and economic power are very much connected; and that power isn't just confined to one's legal right to leave.
We can talk about ideal situations, but in reality, wives in a polygamous relationship compete for the husband -- they compete for his attention, they compete for his ear, they compete for privileges, and indeed, since polygamy is generally tied to wealth, they compete for money and goods as well. This doesn't mean there is outright animosity there, but competition for the husband is still a major feature of the wives' relationship to each other. So while in a monogamous relationship, some power is indeed given up by both partners, in a polygamous relationship, a woman's power is further reduced by the competition with other wives, while the husband is actually empowered by that same competition.
If a woman were to leave a polygamous marriage, she would likely not get custody of her children. Why? Because, not only she and her husband, but also the other wives will have a claim to the children. That's two claims against one. Furthermore, when a monogamous marriage is dissolved, the whole family unit is thus dismantled. In a polygamous marriage, by contrast, one wife's divorce will still leave the family unit mostly intact, and the husband with his remaining wives will have a very, very strong argument that it's in the best interest of the children to remain in his and their other "mothers"' care for the sake of continuity, because their living arrangements will be pretty much the same as before their biological mother left.
The power to leave is a power because the threat of leaving can incentivize people to change their behavior. In a polygamous relationship, the threat of a divorce by one of the wives isn't nearly as big a deal as it would be in a monogamous marriage. From the husband's point of view, he'll keep the kids, and he still has 3, 4, 6 other wives. Even if he genuinely cares for the wife who might leave, there is still considerable continuity in his home to soften the blow if she does. As far as the co-wives are concerned, they might actually welcome the idea of one of them dropping out. If one of the wives leaves, those junior to her will move up the marital ladder; there will be more husband-time for each wife, more money, etc. Since the relationship between the wives is fundamentally competitive, the threat of a divorce probably will not convince the other wives to act better.
Finally, there is the distribution of privileges in a polygamous marriage. Who should go out to work and who should stay home with the kids? Generally, based on experience, the first wife has the most power and the most privileges, despite being the oldest and perhaps not attracting the husband sexually as much as the younger wives. In fact, as far as I know, the philosophy in "fair" polygamous marriages seems to be that the older wives get compensated for decreased sexual attention with money and various other perks; in other words, privileges are accorded on the basis of seniority -- not aptitude or even merit. Thus, when a young wife enters a polygamous marriage as the nth wife, she starts at the bottom -- bearing children, taking care of children (both her own and other wives'), doing housework, etc., while the older wives, who have paid their dues, go to school or to work. (In fact, when some Western women say that they wouldn't mind having a co-wife, I think what they have in mind is a junior wife who is basically a maid and a babysitter.) It may seem fair, but the downside from the women's point of view is that, because they stay at home caring not just for the couple and their children, but for a large household with multiple wives and numerous children -- their employability thus suffers a huge setback.
So even if the wife has the legal right to leave -- practically, she may have to leave without her children and without much of an ability to make a living. Factor in the legal changes that are likely to take place as I've described, and leaving may become a mostly academic option.
You nailed it, in my opinion.
What we have more of, generally, reduces it in value.
There is a reason why only children and first children tend to do better, because they are single they are given more love and attention.
Societies of polygamists are male dominated and this is often reinforced by the 'power' of some religion.
There is a tendency in many of these societies to not educate male and female children the same. There are often not equal opportunities for employment.
In primitive cultures in which women cannot be self-supporting the only way many can survive and still be 'decent' is to join the household of some man who perhaps already has one or more wives.
When we do not build self esteem into our girls, when society does not encourage them to be self supporting and independent, then they often feel that all they have to barter with in the world are their bodies, which can end up in some form of prostitution and being a multiple wife can end up like this. Believe me, you do NOT wish this fate for your daughters.
When some religions educate their daughters differently than the sons, the girls are fed the bs that they are there to be 'handmaidens', to serve men. They are indoctrinated at an early age by school, religion, and home life that they are not equipped to face life on their own, that marriage and kids are somehow the greatest contribution they can make in the world - not so much unlike a barnyard animal.
If we look at societies (and not just point to an individual case, here and there) where this sort of thing goes on, we see a lot of dysfunction in the individuals.
I cannot see a civilization going backwards like that. Young people should be proud and contributing members of society. Their only purpose in life should not be procreation. They should not be reduced to their biology. This is what makes us higher than the rest of the animals. We have brains.
The world is suffering from pollution made worse by overpopulation. We should be encouraging people not to reproduce. Women who feel inferior in the face of society frequently find/seek fulfillment in their offspring. Perhaps the woman's esteem issues should be addressed before she has kids. Perhaps the kid will grow up to be better adjusted when he/shes the parent thriving in the world and not so emotionally needy.
If a woman thinks so little of herself as to be in such a relationship, she is usually a woman with psychological issues - something went wrong somewhere in her upbringing.
There may be a few cases in which this arrangement seems to work, but it would not be a healthy trend for society in my opinion.
What's so wrong with polygamy if all the partners are adult and consent to it? Yes it's illegal, but on moral grounds, what makes it so wrong?
Whats so wrong with doing ANYTHING you like so long as you can round up another participant ? Afterall, having more people doing something makes it acceptable/permissable , correct ? And expecting all outsiders to be tolerant of it helps justify it , right ? Afterall, its WE who decide whats right and wrong based on what we fancy doing .... isnt that true Sir ?
Morality and religion form the basis of most of our laws, including laws against theft and homicide. Who we do or do not allow to marry -- apart from basing such laws on race or ethnicity -->>>> is simply a matter of public consensus.<<<<< Whether that consensus is based on religion, morality or anything else, doesn't matter.
Kind of like Nazi Germany , right ? If your philosophy is correct then Hitler wasnt objectively wrong for he had a great following that believed in what he was trying to accomplish.
I believe that polygamist marriages are possible. But it would be messy if the man marries a woman who was, in his eyes, significantly more attractive than his other wives, or if one wants to leave.
Just too messy. A single wife is much easier, and cheaper to support (unless the women all work, too).
Whats so wrong with doing ANYTHING you like so long as you can round up another participant ? Afterall, having more people doing something makes it acceptable/permissable , correct ? And expecting all outsiders to be tolerant of it helps justify it , right ? Afterall, its WE who decide whats right and wrong based on what we fancy doing .... isnt that true Sir ?
Well, I'm not sure that having more people doing something makes it more acceptable or permissable. I've seen a lot of westerns where a lynch mob goes amuck and does the wrong thing. I do think that a person ought to do what he wants just so long as that person doesn't do it at the expense of another person.
Setting aside my Christian beliefs on this one for a second.....Having two or more wives may prove beneficial in the bedroom and for some financial reasons(as long as both worked), the mental aspect of it may prove daunting for one of the wives or even yourself.
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