All Things Constitutional: discuss the U.S. Constitution (generations, regime, independent)
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Its majority rule with minority protections and specifik minority rights.
If as many people say, those rights are are fluid due to a living and breathing constitution. If that is the case we are only a majority rule nation, there is no real protection for the minority.
If as many people say, those rights are are fluid due to a living and breathing constitution. If that is the case we are only a majority rule nation, there is no real protection for the minority.
Moderator cut: Rude
First you asked a simple mechanical question; Is it possible to revoke the Bill of Rights which of course if is technically possible to do as enumerated in the Constitution itself. But the fact that the Constitution is amendable in no way makes those rights fluid. Nor does the idea that Justices who don't ascribe to the so-called strict constructionist school of Constitutional review makes those rights any more free from legal precedent or original intent.
Moderator cut: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-05-2010 at 04:26 PM..
First you asked a simple mechanical question; Is it possible to revoke the Bill of Rights which of course if is technically possible to do as enumerated in the Constitution itself. But the fact that the Constitution is amendable in no way makes those rights fluid. Nor does the idea that Justices who don't ascribe to the so-called strict constructionist school of Constitutional review makes those rights any more free from legal precedent or original intent.
Moderator cut: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
Moderator cut: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
Do I really need to remind people about the 18th amendment and about how many people are calling for a constitution amendment banning gay marriage?
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-05-2010 at 04:44 PM..
Let's try to find a common ground, people. I think the point being made here involves both of your being corrrect (hilgi and ovacatto). The fact that the Bill of Rights are subject to being revoked through Constitutional amendment does nothing to alter their status as a protector of all citizens, whether they belong to a majority or minority -- a status which, while technically "fluid", has survived thus far and which would require either the truly onerous process of Constitutional amendment or the willingness of five sitting Supreme Court Justices to overturn the stare decisis of two hunded years of Constitutional law.
One thing puzzles me, though, ovcatto: what does this sentence of yours mean? "Nor does the idea that Justices who don't ascribe to the so-called strict constructionist school of Constitutional review makes those rights any more free from legal precedent or original intent." Did you leave out a word? Or is the plural of "makes" inadvertent, since the verb's subject is "school"?
Let's try to find a common ground, people. I think the point being made here involves both of your being corrrect (hilgi and ovacatto). The fact that the Bill of Rights are subject to being revoked through Constitutional amendment does nothing to alter their status as a protector of all citizens, whether they belong to a majority or minority -- a status which, while technically "fluid", has survived thus far and which would require either the truly onerous process of Constitutional amendment or the willingness of five sitting Supreme Court Justices to overturn the stare decisis of two hunded years of Constitutional law.
Thank you.
Again my apologies to the thread. I've been working through an incredible hangover so my patience isn't what they should be.
Quote:
One thing puzzles me, though, ovcatto: what does this sentence of yours mean? "Nor does the idea that Justices who don't ascribe to the so-called strict constructionist school of Constitutional review makes those rights any more free from legal precedent or original intent." Did you leave out a word? Or is the plural of "makes" inadvertent, since the verb's subject is "school"?
Yeah, that was a typo.
Last edited by ovcatto; 06-05-2010 at 04:58 PM..
Reason: Cleaning up syntax as per Yeldaf's criticism.
Let's try to find a common ground, people. I think the point being made here involves both of your being corrrect (hilgi and ovacatto). The fact that the Bill of Rights are subject to being revoked through Constitutional amendment does nothing to alter their status as a protector of all citizens, whether they belong to a majority or minority -- a status which, while technically "fluid", has survived thus far and which would require either the truly onerous process of Constitutional amendment or the willingness of five sitting Supreme Court Justices to overturn the stare decisis of two hunded years of Constitutional law.
I do agree it has been difficult to pass rights restricting amendments, of the 11,000 proposed amendments only 27 have succeeded and only the 16th, 17th, 18th 20th and 22nd could be considered rights reducing.
This does not mean we are safe from losing more rights, just look at the mid 90’s the GOP had a long list of amendments including a ban on flag desecration, more religion in the public square and lately the gay marriage amendment. The Dems are also pushing for gun bans, restrictions on corporations and other rights reducing amendments. (I am against government granted corporate rights, I just feel this is the wrong way to do it)
I do think it will be difficult to push these through but as you see by the years when 16th-18th were passed, it tends to be an idealist generation which rams these through. The boomers are an idealist generation and they are leading the illusion that we are a “Democracy”. The youth are eagerly buying this message. Add in an economic downfall and we could see a long list of restrictions coming in the next 10 years.
Last edited by hilgi; 06-05-2010 at 05:48 PM..
Reason: Font size
In order to delete or remove the Bill of Rights we would need dupe the masses into believing majority rule (Democracy) even though as you say we are not one. Then we just need to elect politicians who give lip service to the constitution yet push for judges who believe in a living breathing constitution. Then that is how it could be removed.
The more we brainwash people into believing that we are a Democracy and our salvation comes from government, we have a good chance of changing our national ideology. I hope you are right though!
I personnaly do not believe our salvation comes from the government. I believe it comes from within us. That is why Jefferson that the tree of liberty at times has to be nurtured by the blood of the patriots. At times there have been patriots in the past that stood up and straightened our nation. It is up to us.
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Last edited by Ibginnie; 06-07-2010 at 04:46 PM..
Reason: The use of manual signatures is prohibited
Ladies and gentlemen, let's not confuse two distinct group of individuals.
The Founding Fathers are considered to be those who lead the Revolution, the Framers were those who attended the Constitutional Convention.
Thanks for the semantics observation. I hope your observation did not cloud your ability to look at the main point I was trying to make.
By the way this term is debated, not clearly settled from what I have read. Some do believe it refers to the 50 individuals that were involved in drafting The Constitution and others as you said that led the Revolution. Who is right? I do not know and not care much. Many of them were involved in both instances. I do not get tied up on minor irrelevant points when discussing the point here, The Constitution.
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Last edited by Ibginnie; 06-07-2010 at 04:44 PM..
Reason: The use of a manual signature is prohibited
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