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As DC noted --- A Natural Gas Combustion Turbine -- sort of big jet engine mounted on the ground that spins a generator is the real cost winner and once it gets a boiler put on the back end for capturing the waste heat and then using that to spin a smaller Steam Turbine -- economically nothing can touch that for quick turn-on, anytime power.
But . . . but . . . when these big plants are placed out in the countryside, and then we have to cover the cost of Transmission (the BIG power lines) and substations, and then Distribution (the little lines out to houses and businesses) . . . and you add up the money math -- the Generation Cost is usually less than half the bill!
That is why I am still thinking that Local, Distributed Generation may still win the day. No Transmission, No Substation, and much lower distribution equipment loads and costs.
But since all that Local Distributed Generation is owned and operated by a bunch of Little People -- that totally destroys the Large Corporate Cash Register model.
Phil, transmission costs are about 5% of the cost of retail electricity. I also like distributed generation and think it has a future, but it will not eliminate the need for a robust transmission system.
Do you have any information on cancer in the crews that served on nuclear powered boats?
Submarine crews get on average less radiation exposure that the public, which is about 300 mrem/yr. When submerged the water is a great shield from natural radiation and the reactors on a Naval vessel are well shielded. No one is allowed in the compartment where the reactor is located while it is operating.
Hopefully you will show all of us how US Navy submarines and US Navy aircraft carriers operate within the United States of America...
I can honestly say I have never seen nuclear submarines or nuclear aircraft carriers within the continental borders of America....
It must be some sight to see lets say the USS Bush (CVN-77) or USS Texas (SSN-775) tooling down IH-10 or IH-95....
You know darn well what the OP's dialogue was about, stop being cute and acting ignorant, you want to boast about the US Navy's proud safety record over the last 50 years?
The nuclear navy has set the standard for operating nuclear plants efficiently and safely. Submariner apparently has little or no understanding of the vast differences between a navy nuclear plant and a civilian nuclear plant. Many nuclear navy veterans staff our civilian plants and do a fine job, but there's a pretty big transition.
A Naval reactor is built like a disposable battery, right? Run the vessel for both the hull and propulsion life span of 20-30 years. With similar technology, it's hard to detest the offering Toshiba made a few years back for the peoples of a remote Alaskan village.
Phil, transmission costs are about 5% of the cost of retail electricity. I also like distributed generation and think it has a future, but it will not eliminate the need for a robust transmission system.
That is a good point regarding the actual numbers. The markets I work include ERCOT, SWPP, and a chunk of California. I may do a model of some different billings that come out. I see a wide range on different customer billings. Right now, our (rental) house is in a Texas Co-op. Just got our bill today. It is showing:
Wholesale Power Costs: 410 kWh @ 5.2 cents = $21.56
Distribution Costs: 410 kWh @ 3 cents = $12.30
Add on other fees and taxes for a total of $52.00
In all that, they do not break out Transmission, per se. I guess since the Coop buys at the Substation(s) it is included in the "wholesale cost." TXU / Oncor (non-Co-op) billing is much more specific around Texas. Those bills show Transmission as their own fee. And another one along this real topic -- Nuke Cleanup Costs. The Solar PV Customers REALLY hate and resent that fee.
Where we get into a mess is with the Co-ops that only want to pay "avoided fuel costs" instead of full Net Metering for rural customers. I argue it either way depending on which side I am playing. In truth, if we all want the Big Boys to stay on "just in case," they do need to be compensated.
I guess the thing I do not really see in the long-term is the Top Down model being the surviving plan. Yunno, always FROM the big generation site and only TO the End "Consumer." Would like to see the Big Transmission Plan (not that one exists) look like a long term dynamic two way highway system, ready to send surplus to potential demand wherever either may exist at any given time.
Suppose following the (Real Road) Highway System may be such a path. That could fully support an Electric Roadway system. Like the Edison Institute, Electric Vehicles (not talking about Battery-Mobiles) are about the only Long Term Financial Salvation I can see for the Generation Industry.
Have you seen THIS stuff? Almost tempted to go back and finish the PhD on this.
That is a good point regarding the actual numbers. The markets I work include ERCOT, SWPP, and a chunk of California. I may do a model of some different billings that come out. I see a wide range on different customer billings. Right now, our (rental) house is in a Texas Co-op. Just got our bill today. It is showing:
Wholesale Power Costs: 410 kWh @ 5.2 cents = $21.56
Distribution Costs: 410 kWh @ 3 cents = $12.30
Add on other fees and taxes for a total of $52.00
In all that, they do not break out Transmission, per se. I guess since the Coop buys at the Substation(s) it is included in the "wholesale cost." TXU / Oncor (non-Co-op) billing is much more specific around Texas. Those bills show Transmission as their own fee. And another one along this real topic -- Nuke Cleanup Costs. The Solar PV Customers REALLY hate and resent that fee.
Where we get into a mess is with the Co-ops that only want to pay "avoided fuel costs" instead of full Net Metering for rural customers. I argue it either way depending on which side I am playing. In truth, if we all want the Big Boys to stay on "just in case," they do need to be compensated.
I guess the thing I do not really see in the long-term is the Top Down model being the surviving plan. Yunno, always FROM the big generation site and only TO the End "Consumer." Would like to see the Big Transmission Plan (not that one exists) look like a long term dynamic two way highway system, ready to send surplus to potential demand wherever either may exist at any given time.
Suppose following the (Real Road) Highway System may be such a path. That could fully support an Electric Roadway system. Like the Edison Institute, Electric Vehicles (not talking about Battery-Mobiles) are about the only Long Term Financial Salvation I can see for the Generation Industry.
Have you seen THIS stuff? Almost tempted to go back and finish the PhD on this.
Excellent intelligent on-topic response to the OP's fears:
Quote:
There is no doubt in my mind that these plants cause illness / cancer /death (something other countries know), yet I'm baffled as to why no one in this country seems to be concerned.
I suspected these plants long before Fukishima. Yet, afte Fukushima, many nuclear plants were closed in more than one country, but our government, due to the all mighty dollar, doesn't seem to learn from or care about the lesson learned there. I get that, because I don't expect much out of the government. What confuses is me is why so many citizens appear to not care or be concerned.
I feel like Erin Brockovich, where no one seems to get it. Tell me someone does.
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