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Old 03-25-2013, 07:36 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
The economics of solar have been poor. US solar firms have folded one by one. Now a Chinese solar firm going under. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/bu...anted=all&_r=0
Actually the growth in solar is explosive, but as in many high growth businesses there are a lot of firms that can't keep up and fail. Who would call the personal computer industry a failure, but there are scores of firms that have dropped out along the way -- IBM, Compaq, Digital, etc.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:17 AM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Actually the growth in solar is explosive, but as in many high growth businesses there are a lot of firms that can't keep up and fail. Who would call the personal computer industry a failure, but there are scores of firms that have dropped out along the way -- IBM, Compaq, Digital, etc.
Who are the PV solar companies experiencing explosive growth. I Googled but didn't find them, though my search terms may have been faulty.

I still haven't seen anyone address the problem with the economics of solar at high adoption rates...
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:22 PM
 
Location: DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Who are the PV solar companies experiencing explosive growth. I Googled but didn't find them, though my search terms may have been faulty.

I still haven't seen anyone address the problem with the economics of solar at high adoption rates...
Table 10.8 Photovoltaic Cell and Module Shipments by Type, Trade, and Prices, 1982-2010
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I still haven't seen anyone address the problem with the economics of solar at high adoption rates...
See my earlier post on the subject.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
See my earlier post on the subject.
Maybe I'm dense.
  • You highlighted that HVAC electrical demand correlates with PV solar generation, after I mentioned HVAC. But there are lots of other demand sources other than HVAC.
  • You mentioned the sun shines somewhere, so the grid approach will help, and I am sure that's true. But that doesn't really help at night unless it's a global energy grid. I don't know if that's possible, but it would have to be relatively costly.
  • You also mentioned the excess capacity that power plant already have, that they can adapt to varying demand. I'm not sure that applies, but I'm probably missing something.
The fundamental question again, if all homeowners install solar (that on average can provide all their electrical needs when optimal conditions exist) at significant equipment costs, the intermittent nature of solar will mean we still have to have the same power plants/distribution systems and the personnel to run it all - all solar does is reduce power plant fuel needs. So homeowners save some power plant fuel, offset by the solar equipment a costs, and still have to pay full cost for the power plant/distributon equipment and labor even though they use same sporadically.

Believe me I want to believe alternative energy sources can help, but the economics don't seem to scale up well unless batteries improve very dramatically or homeowners accept brown/black outs as needed.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: DC
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No one is suggesting 100% solar. Your proposition is what is called a straw man.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:28 AM
 
Location: NC
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I give up...no one will/can answer the original question I guess.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I give up...no one will/can answer the original question I guess.
Your assumption is that people who adopt solar will use solar for 100% of their needs. That's a fatal conceptual error for grid connected solar.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,355 posts, read 5,129,553 times
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how much land space would be required for the panels if a decent sized, say 50,000 person city, went entirely solar?
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:56 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
how much land space would be required for the panels if a decent sized, say 50,000 person city, went entirely solar?
On the roofs of buildings, not much.
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