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Old 05-05-2013, 09:48 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,113,665 times
Reputation: 17865

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Ooohkayyyy.... So you haven't seen the film.
If I want to research glaciers I'm not going to pay $20 to get a perspective from one person that is inevitably going to be skewed.

What I'll do is make use of the vast amount of resources available and be sure to read both sides of the arguments.

 
Old 05-05-2013, 04:36 PM
 
52 posts, read 57,951 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
If I want to research glaciers I'm not going to pay $20 to get a perspective from one person that is inevitably going to be skewed.

What I'll do is make use of the vast amount of resources available and be sure to read both sides of the arguments.
The AAAS are publishers of Science one of the top most respected scientific journals in the world. Do you consider them biased too? What other side of the argument are you referring to? The one advanced by the oil industry? Rush Limbaugh?

I don't think there's any question human industrial activity has an impact on the environment and climate. It's impossible not to when there are 7 billion people on the planet and as a species humans are by far the greatest consumers of resources than any other. To say that they don't is plain nonsense.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 06:21 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,235 posts, read 108,110,164 times
Reputation: 116202
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
If I want to research glaciers I'm not going to pay $20 to get a perspective from one person that is inevitably going to be skewed.

What I'll do is make use of the vast amount of resources available and be sure to read both sides of the arguments.
Fine, you do that. The film can be one of your resources. The evidence it presents is pretty compelling.

Industrial pollution has settled on the glaciers and is accelerating the melting process. The black gunk absorbs light, whereas the white of the glaciers reflects light. So where the industrial gunk has settled, the ice melts much faster, creating a swiss-cheese effect all over the glaciers. The holes in the glaciers thus created go deep to the bottom of the glacier, taking melted water with them, which undermines the bottom of the glacier, causing it to slide off the earth beneath it. Calving of glaciers has increased to the extent that there's not enough new build-up from snow to replace it, so the glaciers are retreating at a much faster rate than ever before.

To sum up.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 10:11 PM
 
105 posts, read 130,109 times
Reputation: 219
The Earth has gone through major temperature fluctuations before, but what's different now is:

1. The warming is happening more rapidly than any time in the last 11,300 years: nsf.gov - National Science Foundation (NSF) News - Earth Is Warmer Today Than During 70 to 80 Percent of the Past 11,300 Years - US National Science Foundation (NSF)
"The last century stands out as the anomaly in this record of global temperature since the end of the last ice age," says Candace Major, program director in the National Science Foundation's (NSF) Division of Ocean Sciences. "This research shows that we've experienced almost the same range of temperature change since the beginning of the industrial revolution as over the previous 11,000 years of Earth history--but this change happened a lot more quickly."
2. There is quite a lot of evidence that human beings are contributing to this rapid increase in temperatures: Human Caused Global Warming — OSS Foundation
How do we know humans cause global warming:
· Greenhouse gases trap infrared heat energy.
· The isotopic signature clearly shows that the extra CO2 in the atmosphere is from fossil fuels.
· We are no longer in the natural cycle. We have largely departed from the natural course of climate and there is no natural mechanism that explains it.
· The models and the observations match.
· There is simply no other mechanism that can explain the significantly altered climate path and the changes in the radiative forcing other than human causes.
3. There are 7 billion human beings on the planet now. Could be scary if infrastructures collapse due to severe droughts, rising seas, etc.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 10:40 PM
 
23,615 posts, read 70,512,920 times
Reputation: 49338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Fine, you do that. The film can be one of your resources. The evidence it presents is pretty compelling.

Industrial pollution has settled on the glaciers and is accelerating the melting process. The black gunk absorbs light, whereas the white of the glaciers reflects light. So where the industrial gunk has settled, the ice melts much faster, creating a swiss-cheese effect all over the glaciers. The holes in the glaciers thus created go deep to the bottom of the glacier, taking melted water with them, which undermines the bottom of the glacier, causing it to slide off the earth beneath it. Calving of glaciers has increased to the extent that there's not enough new build-up from snow to replace it, so the glaciers are retreating at a much faster rate than ever before.

To sum up.
Yawn. Do a search of my back posts about albedo and the overflights of the arctic. "The holes in the glaciers thus created go deep to the bottom of the glacier" Uhhh, the burden of proof is on you for this - once a hole is greater in depth than width, any effect of IR radiation is going to be minimized.
 
Old 05-05-2013, 11:16 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,235 posts, read 108,110,164 times
Reputation: 116202
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Yawn. Do a search of my back posts about albedo and the overflights of the arctic. "The holes in the glaciers thus created go deep to the bottom of the glacier" Uhhh, the burden of proof is on you for this - once a hole is greater in depth than width, any effect of IR radiation is going to be minimized.
I don't have to prove anything. I'm just recommending a film that discusses this and shows the process. Why do I get the feeling that you're afraid to watch the film, for having your view challenged? LOL!

This is the strangest Green Living forum!

 
Old 05-06-2013, 07:47 PM
 
23,615 posts, read 70,512,920 times
Reputation: 49338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I don't have to prove anything. I'm just recommending a film that discusses this and shows the process. Why do I get the feeling that you're afraid to watch the film, for having your view challenged? LOL!

This is the strangest Green Living forum!

If you noticed, I was agreeing about the general effects of soot and such. I'm neither afraid to watch the film, nor particularly anxious to view it. Film, movies, documentaries are simply not my first choice in gathering data. All too often they present only the theme that fits the desires of those doing the funding. Remember that "Duck and Cover" and "Reefer Madness" were also considered educational and documentary at one time. I'm sure if Geographic did it, it has some great photography.
 
Old 05-06-2013, 08:02 PM
 
15,912 posts, read 20,219,297 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Because he was like you. Then when he got down and dirty with the crud accumulating on the glaciers, he learned a lot.

This is the strangest "Green Living" forum! Full of naysayers. If you're not interested in these topics, you don't need to endure them. Let others enjoy.
As I've said before in many threads, this is NOT a bobbing heads forum where whatever is posted everyone agrees with.

Enjoy what? mistruths, lies, propaganda and outright BS?
 
Old 05-06-2013, 08:05 PM
 
15,912 posts, read 20,219,297 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I don't have to prove anything. I'm just recommending a film that discusses this and shows the process. Why do I get the feeling that you're afraid to watch the film, for having your view challenged? LOL!

This is the strangest Green Living forum!

You should have been around when "An Inconvenient Truth" was discussed here, the bobbing heads went wild with agreement....
 
Old 05-06-2013, 08:07 PM
 
105 posts, read 130,109 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Enjoy what? mistruths, lies, propaganda and outright BS?
Enjoy Fox News.
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