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Old 03-26-2014, 12:23 AM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,027,037 times
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At one end, almost at the top is California (Only Texas produces more)

Near the bottom is Hawaii.

However, when you look past the totals and consider the per capital figures and then things turn around quite a bit:

Hawaii at 14.01 metric tones per capita
California at 9.18 metric tons per capita

The volcanoes aren't factored in as contributors.

Actually, California if ranked per capita, is among the least of the offenders while Hawaii is mediocre at best when it comes to managing carbon emissions. Considering that California has far more industry than Hawaii, this is even more telling.

Not is all as it seems. Green looks sometimes are anything but "green".
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Newport Coast, California
471 posts, read 546,229 times
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California has worked so hard to reduce the environmental impact of its industry and given its GDP I'm sure it would also hold up. Glad you pointed out that fact.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:46 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 26,084,484 times
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Gee, I just can't imagine why you might have put that particular comparison together.

Quote:
The volcanoes aren't factored in as contributors.

Actually, California if ranked per capita, is among the least of the offenders while Hawaii is mediocre at best when it comes to managing carbon emissions. Considering that California has far more industry than Hawaii, this is even more telling.
What is most telling to me is how one can twist things to fit one's predetermined point of view if one is trying to score points, rather then simply looking to see what the actual truth of the matter is.

Stop, think... not to diss California, which has done an awesome job of reducing emissions... but how could a dinky little state with a population of only about 1.4 million people, with no manufacturing to speak of, where people don't drive as much as many other states because there's not really much distance between places, where people really work to conserve energy because electricity is so expensive, where most people don't use air conditioners and even fewer use heat, how could they possibly have an annual per capita CO2 emissions rating of 14.01 metric tonnes, versus say, North Carolina, with only a slightly lower rating of 12.74 metric tonnes per capita.

Well, lets see... what could it be? North Carolina has a total population 7 times as large as Hawai'i, at about 9.8 million, and they have Fort Bragg, the country's largest military base, with almost 50,000 personnel. Let's compare that to the almost 50,000 military personnel stationed in and living in Hawai'i. That's where the Pacific Command runs US Navy ops for half the globe, and the Army runs training and support for military action in Afghanistan, etc. etc. Matter of fact, roughly 10% of the jobs in Hawai'i are working for the Defense Department, one way or another, and their combined actions have by far the biggest carbon footprint in the state.

Fortunately the DOD, and all the military command, have realized the need to reduce this footprint, and to do their part to plan for and mitigate climate change, so they have a massive effort underway to convert to renewable energy resources wherever they can, and to initiate energy savings measures everywhere. Most visibly they are installing solar PV arrays in virtually every location they control in Hawai'i, and they have also invested $ Millions in various Green Energy startup ventures, working on a wide range of projects.

But you know, with all those jets coming and going 24/7, and ships moving in and out, and tank training maneuvers, and everything else they do, I'm guessing the per capita CO2 emissions for Hawai'i would likely run high even if all us civilians turned all our lights off and stopped driving completely. The amount the military churns out is staggering.

Really, you have to look at the whole picture.

Last edited by OpenD; 03-26-2014 at 02:12 AM..
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:42 AM
Zot
 
Location: 3rd rock from a nearby star
468 posts, read 633,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
But you know, with all those jets coming and going 24/7, and ships moving in and out, and tank training maneuvers, and everything else they do, I'm guessing the per capita CO2 emissions for Hawai'i would likely run high even if all us civilians turned all our lights off and stopped driving completely. The amount the military churns out is staggering.
What is the CO2 footprint of civilian jets going to and from Hawaii?

Assuming the tourism industry is a major factor in the Hawaiian economy, it seems fair to question the footprint of all the jets it's tourists use. On a per capita basis, counting the tourism industry in Hawaii, how large is the per capita carbon footprint? I'm guessing it's large.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,387 posts, read 9,819,186 times
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While Hawaii is developing their renewable energy far ahead of other states (even the PRK) They still burn an enormous amount of liquid fuel to generate electricity.....
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:49 AM
 
41,817 posts, read 46,699,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post

Actually, California if ranked per capita, is among the least of the offenders while Hawaii is mediocre at best when it comes to managing carbon emissions. Considering that California has far more industry than Hawaii, this is even more telling.
Where is the link to where these figures are coming from?

For starters California imports a lot of electric, has that been taken into consideration?

Along the same lines a few years ago NJ and some other New England states most whom are net importers of electric were suing PA and other net exporters of electric. Seems to me the easy fix would have been to cut the cord to those states. See how fast they drop the lawsuit when the lights in Atlantic City go out. Matter of fact if anyone should be suing anyone it should be be PA suing NJ for all the environmental damage their electric usage is causing in the state of PA.

Last edited by thecoalman; 03-26-2014 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:36 AM
 
4,715 posts, read 9,654,786 times
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Wonder what the carbon footprint per US Military person is while working... As a global total not a local total.

Wonder if Hydrogen fuel cells airplanes possible? All it would do is produce "rain"? Don't know how far along that tech is for use on a commercial flight basis though. Or if anyone has thought of it. I saw an article on the worlds first solar powered airplane - put something that big for only person isn't going to work on a commercial basis either. Anyone that has lived near an airport would appreciate the "rain" over the current soot that falls from them. Although they could collect the clean water for use on board to an extent.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:04 AM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,027,037 times
Reputation: 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Gee, I just can't imagine why you might have put that particular comparison together.



What is most telling to me is how one can twist things to fit one's predetermined point of view if one is trying to score points, rather then simply looking to see what the actual truth of the matter is.

Stop, think... not to diss California, which has done an awesome job of reducing emissions... but how could a dinky little state with a population of only about 1.4 million people, with no manufacturing to speak of, where people don't drive as much as many other states because there's not really much distance between places, where people really work to conserve energy because electricity is so expensive, where most people don't use air conditioners and even fewer use heat, how could they possibly have an annual per capita CO2 emissions rating of 14.01 metric tonnes, versus say, North Carolina, with only a slightly lower rating of 12.74 metric tonnes per capita.

Well, lets see... what could it be? North Carolina has a total population 7 times as large as Hawai'i, at about 9.8 million, and they have Fort Bragg, the country's largest military base, with almost 50,000 personnel. Let's compare that to the almost 50,000 military personnel stationed in and living in Hawai'i. That's where the Pacific Command runs US Navy ops for half the globe, and the Army runs training and support for military action in Afghanistan, etc. etc. Matter of fact, roughly 10% of the jobs in Hawai'i are working for the Defense Department, one way or another, and their combined actions have by far the biggest carbon footprint in the state.

Fortunately the DOD, and all the military command, have realized the need to reduce this footprint, and to do their part to plan for and mitigate climate change, so they have a massive effort underway to convert to renewable energy resources wherever they can, and to initiate energy savings measures everywhere. Most visibly they are installing solar PV arrays in virtually every location they control in Hawai'i, and they have also invested $ Millions in various Green Energy startup ventures, working on a wide range of projects.

But you know, with all those jets coming and going 24/7, and ships moving in and out, and tank training maneuvers, and everything else they do, I'm guessing the per capita CO2 emissions for Hawai'i would likely run high even if all us civilians turned all our lights off and stopped driving completely. The amount the military churns out is staggering.

Really, you have to look at the whole picture.
Yeah, the whole picture, as if California doesn't have military bases. The Los Angeles basin isn't filled with industry as is San Jose.

California has about 3 times the military population as Hawaii. Fact is, Hawaii doesn't even make the top 10 list for military populations.

But lets not let facts get in the way. Besides, what does North Carolina have to do with California? Nice try with distraction though.

Jets flying in and out? SFO, LAX, Miramar, El Centro, you really are grasping there.

As for the comparison, opposite ends of the spectrum are always good comparisons. Likewise when so much boasting about Hawaii goes on and on and on... It seems not a thread goes by without Hawaii being cited as some example of green greatness, a little reality check can't hurt.

The whole picture is this, Hawaii is anything but a poster state for managing it's carbon footprint.

Last edited by Mack Knife; 03-26-2014 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,990 posts, read 2,367,181 times
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How do we measure the carbon footprint of illegal aliens? Are they factored into the picture?
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,329,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
How do we measure the carbon footprint of illegal aliens? Are they factored into the picture?
That would make Roswell NM the ground zero for alien footprints.

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