Lots of new Hydrogen powered cars coming to market, all with the same drawback (gas, Prius)

[OpenD]

After small pilot tests here and there for years, and a small GM lease program in Los Angeles for three years, there are now Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (HFCEV) hitting the market soon from a number of major manufacturers that you can actually buy. The big question is, will anybody want to? They all face the same chicken and egg issue, that there are very few places to fill up the tank.

So following here are stories about some of them... Toyota, and Hyundai cars seem to be first to the starting line..., and there's pushback from Volkswagen

[OpenD]

First up, the Toyota... which they say will cost "more than a Prius, but less than a Tesla" when it launches next year.

I Drove Toyota’s Car Of The Future And It Was Boring
While Tesla is getting everyone excited about the idea of sexy electric cars in every driveway, Toyota has been working on a different technological roadmap: The carmaker that made the hybrid category with the Prius thinks that the next generation of cars will be fueled by hydrogen, and it’s going to beat everyone to market with a model coming next year.

Earlier this week I got a chance to drive a couple of Toyota’s test models. One was an older Highlander, a small “SUV” that was based on the Camry platform. It was running on Toyota’s older hydrogen tech, but looked and felt like a real car — the interior was set up like a car you could have found on a lot five years ago.

The other model was a “mule,” built to test the latest hardware without giving away what the production model looks like, inside or out. This car was much lighter than the fuel-cell-powered Highlander, resulting in better performance than the Highlander-based model. Of course, it was also wrapped in a swirl-patterned skin that drew some odd gazes, and the interior was basically a duct-taped mess.
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While the Highlander’s infotainment screen had a mode that showed where power was coming from (the car has a fuel cell and a Prius-sized battery), for the most part it just felt like driving a car that runs on gasoline or diesel.

That seems to be what Toyota is going for with its hydrogen-powered cars. In addition to announcing that it would have a fuel cell car for sale in the United States next year, the company has also been investing in the rollout of a hydrogen-fuel infrastructure in California that should be ready in time for the vehicle’s 2015 launch.

I Drove Toyota’s Car Of The Future And It Was Boring | TechCrunch

[OpenD]

Here's the Hyundai, also coming to market next year, but with an unusual LA and Orange County Only lease that includes the hydrogen fuel... if you can find it!

Hyundai’s Hydrogen-Powered Car Briefly Arrives in Boston

The 2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell Vehicle, a small SUV that runs entirely on hydrogen, made an appearance at the Boston Seaport Hotel on Monday afternoon.

MacLeod said he wants to bring the Tucson Fuel Cell to the attention of policymakers in Massachusetts and in other New England states in order help grow the hydrogen car’s retail market. After all, there’s not much point in marketing a hydrogen-powered car in a region that has no hydrogen refueling stations.
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“Hydrogen production isn’t the issue. The issues is making it available for mass distribution,” said MacLeod. “Fuel cell vehicle drivers currently have access to eight hydrogen stations marketing to California motorists and there are plans to open more.”

MacLeod said he hopes to work with local policymakers on creating an “action plan” that will invite hydrogen-powered cars to hit road in the New England region.

As it currently stands, the Tucson Fuel Cell is only available to lease for customers in the Los Angeles and Orange County areas of California for $499 a month for 36 months with $2,999 down. The lease terms include free hydrogen refueling, said Hyundai spokesman Joe Guy Collier.

Hyundai

[OpenD]

And here's why Volkswagen backed off, along with a resounding criticism of the hydrogen technology for the US market.

Volkswagen: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Hopeless Outside Of Japan

Shigeru Shoji, President of Volkswagen Group Japan, says that hydrogen cars will only be successful in the Japanese market because of extensive government subsidies – up to $28,500 per fuel cell vehicle – and assistance in building the infrastructure needed for hydrogen distribution. He believes hydrogen cars will not make it in the marketplace in other countries where the government is not willing to make such major investments to support a hydrogen economy.

Shoji recently told Bloomberg News that the commitment by Toyota and the Japanese government of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles is just another example of “the Galapagos Syndrome” that plagues Japanese manufacturing – a pattern of building products that are only suitable for the Japanese home market.
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Ford CEO Alan Mulally told Bloomberg recently to expect more hydrogen cars in the coming years.
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While both hydrogen and battery advocates claim their system is the most environmentally friendly, the truth is that both rely heavily on fracking. Why? Because hydrogen is made primarily from natural gas and most electricity is generated by natural gas, at least in the US. And fracking is what makes the abundance of low cost natural gas we enjoy at the moment possible. The road to emissions free driving that doesn’t pollute the environment is an illusion if fracking is its foundation.

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Hopeless Outside Of Japan, Says Volkswagen

[Dakster]

Originally Posted by OpenD

And here's the very nice Volkswagen, along with a resounding criticism of the hydrogen technology for the US market.

While both hydrogen and battery advocates claim their system is the most environmentally friendly, the truth is that both rely heavily on fracking. Why? Because hydrogen is made primarily from natural gas and most electricity is generated by natural gas, at least in the US. And fracking is what makes the abundance of low cost natural gas we enjoy at the moment possible. The road to emissions free driving that doesn’t pollute the environment is an illusion if fracking is its foundation.

I believe that statement myself... Not so sure that Hydrogen is the answer yet... I am sure there are better ways to make it though. And a home refueling stations would be awesome.

[OpenD]

Here's another i think belongs in this thread...

Is Toyota's Hydrogen Car a Giant Bluff?

Why is Toyota (NYSE: TM ) turning its back on electric cars to build a hydrogen car? That has been just one of the big questions surrounding the Japanese auto giant's decision to throw its R&D weight behind the upcoming new Mirai sedan, which will be powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. The Mirai is certainly an intriguing product. But in order to get the resources to develop it, Toyota made a big shift away from battery-electric vehicles -- because, it said, current batteries have too many disadvantages.

The shift was so big and so complete that it may have been part of the reason behind Toyota's decision to delay the next-generation Prius.

But what if it's a giant bluff?

Is Toyota's Hydrogen Car a Giant Bluff? (TM, TSLA)

The author goes on to make an intriguing case that since the drive train for the Miral is electric, that if the hydrogen powered model is a flop, they can look to Tesla to bail it out, with a power supply swap to batteries... from the new Tesla battery factory. After all, Toyota was an early investor in Tesla...

Interesting argument... I'll let you read it in the article.

[Dakster]

It raises some interesting thoughts - Although if I were an auto manufacturer I would want to make sure that my platform would handle as many technologies as possible with minimal retooling. And if I was able to bluff everyone else into retooling for something that wasn't gonna make it - could be a business strategy too. Make everyone else spend money and energy making something that will be obsolete too...

[Inattentive]

France has a country loop highway that has compressed air stations as their version is a six year old system of compressed air cars.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by Inattentive

France has a country loop highway that has compressed air stations as their version is a six year old system of compressed air cars.

Well, yeah... and the fact that you never hear anything about it is probably an indication of how successful the program is.

Compressed air technology is being investigated in several places, including Tati's air cars in India. The problem with all of them seems to be the fact that compressing air is not a very efficient way to store energy, so short ranges and low speeds have mostly been the rule.

Still, Peugeot Citroen is planning to sell a compressed air/hybrid car in 2016, using compressed air as its energy storage medium instead of batteries, and an ICE engine to compress the air, and power the drivetrain at speeds over 43 mph.

Reading between the lines, and understanding a little the difference between French driving and American driving, they are going for a vehicle that can run on stored energy in polluted urban centers, but allow for better performance out in the country.

It will be interesting to see how they do...

Peugeot Citroen to introduce compressed air hybrid by 2016

[MJ7]

It's just like any type of new powered vehicle, it will launch off in cities with access to refills. The dealerships will provide refills, so if you live in a large city with several dealerships around you then you will be golden for your commuting.