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Lets just say that the figment of imagination were to be realized tomorrow. Suddenly everyone that wanted to buy an EV could do so. On nearly every corner was a recharging station and somehow all the problems associated with charging EVs were solved.
Don't forget, the costs to make something available often have little to do with the price paid by the consumer. Also, lets not forget that the idea that everyone or most everyone are going to charge at home isn't in the cards either or most people would fill their cars gas tank at the station closest to their homes and that isn't the case. You fill up when you need it, not when you happen to be close to home.
How long do you think it would take before the price to recharge an EV would rival the price of filling the tank of a car fueled by gasoline?
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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I don't think that would ever happen, because electricity is too important to every home and business to be priced anywhere near that price. I can see "stations" charging a service charge/fee to make more profit, but unless it's reasonable, people will pay to have home charging systems installed. It's never likely to approach the cost of gas even at the new low today of $3 and less. In an extreme example, if the price/KwH got too high, people could buy a natural gas powered generator to charge their car.
I don't think that would ever happen, because electricity is too important to every home and business to be priced anywhere near that price. I can see "stations" charging a service charge/fee to make more profit, but unless it's reasonable, people will pay to have home charging systems installed. It's never likely to approach the cost of gas even at the new low today of $3 and less. In an extreme example, if the price/KwH got too high, people could buy a natural gas powered generator to charge their car.
The costs to put charging stations nearly everywhere gasoline filling station are has to be paid by someone.
I can't see large numbers of people buying natural gas generators, going through the expense, time and red tape to install them (many planning departments have significant restrictions on generators like that). The person who gets home late at night isn't about to fire up some generator to charge their EV because they'd likely have fists banging on the front door.
Many HOAs aren't going to allow generators to be run either.
The price we pay for gasoline has little connection with the costs to produce it and get it into your tank.
Once an industry sees a dependency, the prices to consumers can go very high indeed.
Who ever thought someone would pay over $100 a month to watch TV? Millions upon millions do.
Who ever thought someone would stand in line for days to pay over $600 for a mobile phone and then pay $100 or more per month just to use it? Many thousands do the former and hundreds of millions do the latter.
Who ever thought you would buy solar panels, harvest energy from the sun and then have the utility companies come along and say you need to pay them to do so because they have costs? (forget that solar installs reduce their operating costs)? It is happening all over.
So when I propose the idea that people will end up paying for an electric recharge for their EV what they'd pay for a gas fill up, you bet it will happen. There is nothing to stop it. A person driving an EV has to go somewhere and when they get there they need a recharge. What will they be willing to pay?
They will pay whatever the price at the plugin happens to be charging. If EV become as prevalent as ICE cars, the market forces that work on the price of gas will also work on the price of electric. The consumer will perceive a benefit (transportation) and pay accordingly. If that were not true, then we'd have $1.00 a gallon gasoline. The largest portion of the cost of gas is the crude oil prices. The reason it is so high is because people will pay $4.00 per gallon for gas.
Also, lets not forget that the idea that everyone or most everyone are going to charge at home isn't in the cards either or most people would fill their cars gas tank at the station closest to their homes and that isn't the case. You fill up when you need it, not when you happen to be close to home.
Once again you have managed to TOTALLY miss the point. If everyone could refill their car at night, like charging their cell phone, while they were asleep, why WOULDN'T they do it? Do you honestly think people prefer having to drive to a special place, maybe wait in line, and wait to refill the tank and pay for it if all that were unnecessary? We've already had several people post here about the joys going months without needing to find a gas station in their plug-in hybrids.
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How long do you think it would take before the price to recharge an EV would rival the price of filling the tank of a car fueled by gasoline?
Not going to happen, 1) because they would have to raise all electricity rates to do it and, 2) as more renewable energy sources come on line the rates will likely drop. As an example, hydroelectric rates have always been cheapy cheap, and windpower and solar power are less expensive to install, and modular, so smaller installation can be tucked into corners, unlike large dams. Once the intermittency issue is solved with low cost energy storage equipment, the leash is off.
It's actually comical to me that you keep frothing at the mouth over this, since less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs so far. It's not like anyone expects all the ICE powered vehicles to just go away overnight.
So what, exactly, is your issue? People who think EVs make sense to them should buy them. People who don't, shouldn't. That seems pretty simple to me.
Once again you have managed to TOTALLY miss the point. If everyone could refill their car at night, like charging their cell phone, while they were asleep, why WOULDN'T they do it? Do you honestly think people prefer having to drive to a special place, maybe wait in line, and wait to refill the tank and pay for it if all that were unnecessary? We've already had several people post here about the joys going months without needing to find a gas station in their plug-in hybrids.
Unless the range of the vehicle exceeds the usage in any given day, recharging at night may not always be possible. For many people 100 miles per days is insufficient and a number of EV only cars dont even last that long.
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Originally Posted by OpenD
Not going to happen, 1) because they would have to raise all electricity rates to do it and, 2) as more renewable energy sources come on line the rates will likely drop. As an example, hydroelectric rates have always been cheapy cheap, and windpower and solar power are less expensive to install, and modular, so smaller installation can be tucked into corners, unlike large dams. Once the intermittency issue is solved with low cost energy storage equipment, the leash is off.
It is very possible to have differing rates based on usage. It already happens with commercial vs residential vs security light vs variable rate services. Each of those applications have a meter and a different rate based on declared usage.
It seems very simple that a utility company would require a separate meter for charging stations and set a different rate for that meter. If that became a product, then they would be able to cut off customers setting up a charging station on a non-approved meter and enforce the rate quite easily.
It is true that many sources of generation have reduced costs for electricity, but the transmission costs to deliver that electricity to other areas tends to make them all about the same in the long run. Not every area has adequate wind, solar or water to make those cost effective for them.
Until technology evolves to the point that a 2mph wind speed can economically generate power, or the PV cells can deliver the amperage to quick charge a bank of batteries for a car, the utility companies are in charge of how much money they make, not us.
Unless the range of the vehicle exceeds the usage in any given day, recharging at night may not always be possible. For many people 100 miles per days is insufficient and a number of EV only cars dont even last that long.
Oh, geez, this myth again? Using US government figures, 85% of the commuters in the US are within range of all the EVs on the market today.
Think niche. EVs fill a niche. If that isn't your niche, don't buy one.
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It is very possible to have differing rates based on usage. It already happens with commercial vs residential vs security light vs variable rate services. Each of those applications have a meter and a different rate based on declared usage.
Yes, and a number of utility companies have special rates for EVs already... and they're lower than regular household rates, because they recharge during late night hours when demand is lowest.
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It is true that many sources of generation have reduced costs for electricity, but the transmission costs to deliver that electricity to other areas tends to make them all about the same in the long run. Not every area has adequate wind, solar or water to make those cost effective for them.
No, but high tension lines are still more effective at moving energy across country than are trucks or trains or pipelines. That's why hydroelectric power from the Pacific Northwest goes to such a wide area. And it's why Texas wind and solar farms could rival the PNW in the reach of the energy they can supply.
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Until technology evolves to the point that a 2mph wind speed can economically generate power, or the PV cells can deliver the amperage to quick charge a bank of batteries for a car, the utility companies are in charge of how much money they make, not us.
Actually, no. The Public Utility Commissions are, and they are proving quite friendly to EVs and individual solar and wind and hydro producers tying into the grids.
Electricity rates are regulated and cost based. The OP has no clue about the subject. Not really a shock.
That you believe regulations will cap costs given the scenario is more of a shock, talk about clueless.
Somehow you seem to believe that the difference between the price of gasoline and the price of electricity to charge EVs is simply going to stay in the pockets of the consumer because of regulations.
You really believe that the utilities would allow with some government agreement, not to tap into that vast revenue source? If EV charging displaced gasoline (this is in the OP) that significant taxes would not be imposed on EV charging and that the huge difference in prices would be allowed to continue?
Take a car with only a 10 gallon fuel tank. Then take a $4.00/gal price just as an example.
Say the EV can be recharged for say $8.00.
If the ICE is getting say 26 miles per gallon and the EV can go about 265 miles per charge (obtainable according to marketing/PR) then:
The ICE costs $40.00 to fuel and;
the EV costs $8.00 to recharge.
Somehow $38.00 is going to be left on the table by the utilities because of regulations.
I can't stop laughing. You bet they are going to go after it.
Not everyone can charge at home or will be in a position to do so. As I said, people don't go to the nearest gas station to their homes now, all that is going to change? Even if it did, the utilities are going to simply sit on their hands and let the consumer keep $38.00 per recharge to themselves?
That you believe regulations will cap costs given the scenario is more of a shock, talk about clueless.
Somehow you seem to believe that the difference between the price of gasoline and the price of electricity to charge EVs is simply going to stay in the pockets of the consumer because of regulations
that is the law
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