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Old 04-28-2015, 05:46 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
In what ways? Do you understand what it would require to extract all of the coal in Appalachia?
Coal from Appalachia is the most expensive, in decline and will continue to decline. 40 percent of the coal we use comes from the Powder River Basin. It's cheap to extract and low in sulfur.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...n-coal-mining/





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Old 04-28-2015, 06:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post

Including other (unproved) sources, the best estimates are that we have 134 billion barrels total. That's a 20 year supply at current consumption rates if we attempted to use only our own oil.
Understand when they say proven their is no question as to it's existence. There is an estimated 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil in the Green River formation by itself.

Quote:
About Oil Shale

While oil shale is found in many places worldwide, by far the largest deposits in the world are found in the United States in the Green River Formation, which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. Estimates of the oil resource in place within the Green River Formation range from 1.2 to 1.8 trillion barrels. Not all resources in place are recoverable; however, even a moderate estimate of 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil from oil shale in the Green River Formation is three times greater than the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. Present U.S. demand for petroleum products is about 20 million barrels per day. If oil shale could be used to meet a quarter of that demand, the estimated 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil from the Green River Formation would last for more than 400 years1.
As another example with coal. The 19 at active mines can last about 2 decades. The 256 is known to exist and can be feasibly mined. The 479 includes the 256, is known to exist but may not be feasible to mine, e.g it sits under a town. The rest are estimates. Whatever the case it's an absolutely staggering amount. The 256 by itself when adjusted for increase usage can last about 150 years.

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Old 04-28-2015, 06:08 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodpete View Post
I'm assuming that fracking caused the earthquake on Mt. Everest too ? Or maybe it was global warming. Hard to tell.
This is not so easy to dismiss, it's certainly possible it's coincidence but it's looking like that is unlikely.
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:44 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,495,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Understand when they say proven their is no question as to it's existence. There is an estimated 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil in the Green River formation by itself.
That's not all that well accepted, since the technology to recover it profitably doesn't exist. Moreover, you'd be talking about destroying some valuable areas and several communities to recover it. Even if some oil company succeeded in convincing a large swath of multiple states to allow them to do so, you're talking 115 years or less supply of very low grade oil (I'd go with less than 115 because you get less of the products in demand per barrel of that low grade oil). After you leave a big portion of several states uninhabitable and that oil runs out, what next?
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,162,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
U.S. Crude Oil, Natural Gas, and Natural Gas Liquids Proved Reserves

36.5 billion barrels proved reserves. U.S. consumption last year was 6.95 billion barrels.

How much oil is consumed in the United States? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Including other (unproved) sources, the best estimates are that we have 134 billion barrels total. That's a 20 year supply at current consumption rates if we attempted to use only our own oil.

http://www.boem.gov/uploadedFiles/20..._Factsheet.pdf

http://certmapper.cr.usgs.gov/data/n...summary_07.pdf

First of all, we don't use only our own oil; crude oil is a globally-traded commodity. We export and import plenty of crude and condensate.

Additionally, your argument is predicated upon the assumption that there will be no future technological advances or market changes that will make additional oil recoverable in an economically-feasible manner.


From your own source:
"According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s (EIA) International Energy Outlook 2014, the global supply of crude oil, other liquid hydrocarbons, and biofuels is expected to be adequate to meet the world's demand for liquid fuels for at least the next 25 years."
Do we have enough oil worldwide to meet our future needs? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:12 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,495,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
First of all, we don't use only our own oil; crude oil is a globally-traded commodity. We export and import plenty of crude and condensate.

Additionally, your argument is predicated upon the assumption that there will be no future technological advances or market changes that will make additional oil recoverable in an economically-feasible manner.


From your own source:
"According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s (EIA) International Energy Outlook 2014, the global supply of crude oil, other liquid hydrocarbons, and biofuels is expected to be adequate to meet the world's demand for liquid fuels for at least the next 25 years."
Do we have enough oil worldwide to meet our future needs? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
25 years isn't a very long time. And you really missed the point, which is that we really don't have that much oil given our high consumption rate. We can't drill our way out of this problem.

And even if we can extract the rest of the currently unrecoverable oil, that's not a big supply either as pointed out earlier. And it would leave some significant areas of this country uninhabitable. And the fact that oil is traded globally makes the situation worse, because as oil becomes scarcer worldwide, our oil would be going to the highest bidder, decreasing the time it lasts.
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:51 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
That's not all that well accepted, since the technology to recover it profitably doesn't exist.
When they use the term recoverable that means it can be extracted using today's tech feasibly. That is why you have difference between the estimated 1.2 to 1.8 trillion barrels and 800 billion of recoverable oil. You can argue the point with Argonne National Lab.
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:53 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
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Most of the problems dealt with the methane getting into drinking wells. The thing to keep in mind are the drillers had to submit lease applications that specified that the injection of fracking fluids would not contaminate the groundwater for at least 100 years. The landowners can collect royalties but studies have shown the value of the land decrease when it's near these drill sites. If you believe in thse driller's models, the land value should decline significantly in time. If the models were fraudulent, these sites will probably have to be remediated in a few decades (almost 1 decade into fracking now) and land will be worthless.
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Old 04-29-2015, 11:26 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,495,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
When they use the term recoverable that means it can be extracted using today's tech feasibly. That is why you have difference between the estimated 1.2 to 1.8 trillion barrels and 800 billion of recoverable oil. You can argue the point with Argonne National Lab.
Those big numbers sound impressive until you realize the world is consuming 34 billion barrels a year total.
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:42 PM
 
208 posts, read 330,874 times
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Interesting pic of the inner Earth.
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