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Alternate sources of electricity will always cost more then the grid. The grid simply has huge economies of scale to keep their prices within a decent level. Or at least it did here in New England.
Here in New England we have been effectively monopolized by the Natural Gas suppliers. We have decommissioned almost all of our nuclear power plants and most of our coal fired units. The result is we have switched primarily to Natural Gas. The gas suppliers must have seen the results of this change. They have not yet built any new pipelines to supply the increased demand in winter so their winter prices are very high. The increased cost is passed on to the electrical customers.
We need to regulate Natural Gas prices to keep our electricity costs under control. These monopolists are reaping tremendous profits from this deliberately failed market. There is a new pipeline bring built but it is for exporting LNG to foreign markets. It should be tapped, weather the owners of the line or the gas like it or not, to supply our gas fired electrical generators before any gas is exported.
New England's major mistake was not replacing the original Yankee series nuclear power plants with more and larger nukes on the same sites. We do not have any natural, besides our fully developed hydropower, sources of base load energy so we have to be either completely dependent on the fossil fuel monopolies or nuclear. We took the cheaper route so we are going to pay a lot more in the near future.
Divide 1045 kWh by 30 days and you get an average of 35 kWh per day. There is a problem that many days would go over the average and some would go under. But even the average would require five 7 kWh Testa Powerwall batteries that cost $3000 apiece. So that is an investment of $15000 which over a 10 year period is $1500 per year or $125 per month. Which is very close to the $118.78 I was paying.
But real world issues intervene. No battery would last 100% drawdown for ten years. You may have to draw down only 70%. While the battery itself is guaranteed for ten years, I don't know what kind of memory loss would happen. Some speculation is it could be only 1000 full cycles. In reality to handle day to day fluctuations and months where airconditioning is running, I would probably have to purchase the maximum of 9 batteries that can be coupled together. Remember these are 220 lbs apiece, so I am going to need a strong wall. Now the outlay is $27,000 . Even if I am wealthy enough to afford that amount in cash, to be honest I have to think about lost potential if I invest that money for 10 years. At 7% interest it would double in ten years.
I am paying much more to run the battery than I can make back with free electricity (generation only).
The other problem is the generation company may not go with free electricity for ten years. The power generation company is in it for profit. At the end of any month they calculate the average revenue per kWh. If you looked at my initial calculation, it would be difficult with this plan to break even from my current 8.4 cents per kWh plan. I would have to be diligent about washing one load of clothes every night at 9 PM and drying it after 10 PM during the free time. If the generation company calculates an average of 8.3 cents per kWh, then they might be happy to steal me from my current company at 8.4 cents per kWh.
But if the power company finds that they are losing a lot of money by filling up thousands of lithium ion batteries, they will simply stop the program or alter the terms.
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The Tesla Powerwall battery for emergency backup is 10 kWh and costs $3500 and weighs 220 pounds. Each kWh is the energy equivalent in 3.83 ounces of gasoline. So 10 kWh is 38.1 ounces of gasoline.
So yes, the battery is cleaner energy source than a small combustion engine, but once you've drained the battery you have only saved 38.3 ounces (less than 1/3 gallon). If the power outage lasts more than an hour, you still have to kick of the gasoline generator unless you have invested in a more expensive Natural Gas/ LP.
If you are running a movie theater and the power goes out for 15 minutes, everyone wants their money back. If you are running an online business and people are spending a $1000 a minute, and your server loses power for 15 minutes you have a revenue loss. In these cases it would be nice to have a battery backup that kicks in without noise, muss or fuss. But for your average homeowner the battery is not enough to avoid buying the gasoline or LP backup generator.
I see it as a niche product primarily for people in tiny urban apartments and some businesses. These micro apartments for Manhattan with only 331 square feet and a Murphy bed would be nice to have a battery backup in the event of a power outage to keep a fan going in summer, and a computer and cell phone operating. I would consider $3500 as well spent, as there is clearly no convenient place to put a generator.
i think i had my own numbers in mind. i use roughly 630kWh per month. i don't see the battery as being a tool to replace your 24 hour usage. it's to pull from the grid at night, where there's off peak pricing, or to store excess power from solar, so you don't have to pull from the grid at night. the latter seems pointless to me as long as you have net metering. so the only use i see for residential is someplace that has large savings for off peak power. otherwise, businesses will be the main customer.
i think i had my own numbers in mind. i use roughly 630kWh per month. i don't see the battery as being a tool to replace your 24 hour usage.
I don't see it as a way to replace 24 hour usage either, but I was trying to answer the question
Let's use your average usage and my rates for GENERATION of electricity alone .
Base cost
$0.084/kWh *630 kWh= $52.92 per month
If I switch to free nights
$0.1199/kWh *441 kWh= $52.88 per month
So I would have to shift 630-441=189 kWh to break even. Which is difficult to do since we normally use less power at night. Otherwise we have a deficit to begin with.
Note that 189/630=30.00% which is a little less than 8/24=33% of the day.
If I can shift another 200 kWh *$0.1199/kWh = $23.98 reduce my bill.
But the battery costs at least $3000/10 years / 12 months per year = $25 a month.
Since in theory the battery holds 7 kWh and you filled and emptied it every day for 30 days, you could transition 210 kWh from night to day in 30 days.
So in theory, I could break even. Not save money, but just break even. But there will be problems.
1) I am ignoring finance cost of battery, or at least lost potential earnings
2) You may have a lot of trouble getting your use in 16 hours down to 441 kWh without the battery.
3) The battery cannot be filled and emptied 100% every day for 10 years. Batteries are not that efficient
4) The electric generation company is under no obligation to retain those rates for more than a year.
The point was that the best you can do is break even. In particular the battery may be very inefficient and not come even close to full charge and discharge every day.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 06-07-2015 at 06:31 PM..
I am looking at a derilict farm in my neighborhood and am watching the Tesla product as a possiible way to solve the electrical service issues there: It is cut from the pole and SDG&E wants $9500, including a $3000 consultation fee to come out and see what needs to be done to reattach the wires, which is sad because the home is underground conduit to the pole and the wire cur is visible right next to the can. Now, Paco Martin I thank you for your cost benefit calculations, however, the average electrical rate in my area is 26.6c/KW, I will run the numbers to see the benefit then.
I am looking at a derilict farm in my neighborhood and am watching the Tesla product as a possiible way to solve the electrical service issues there: It is cut from the pole and SDG&E wants $9500, including a $3000 consultation fee to come out and see what needs to be done to reattach the wires, which is sad because the home is underground conduit to the pole and the wire cur is visible right next to the can. Now, Paco Martin I thank you for your cost benefit calculations, however, the average electrical rate in my area is 26.6c/KW, I will run the numbers to see the benefit then.
.26 cents per kWH!!!!
Of course. It is a no brainer! That is very expensive electricity, a no brainer!
Of course. It is a no brainer! That is very expensive electricity, a no brainer!
The 12 acre farm where I currently reside has now popped a $900/month electric bill for several months in a row. The 8 acre home on the side of us with no farm ativity is popping a $600/mo bill, but by their own admission are 'energy pigs" however they pit in a 66 panel system, IIRC, 22.5kw, with net metering and are track to recover the system cost in 33 months.
And who knows what the SDG&E rates will be in a few years down the road.
As I try to get this farm across the street, I am going to engage in some experimentation:
1) I want to make my poultry brooding building off grid, it will need to draw 600 watts 24/7 for 4 week stints. I intentionally designed the building with a 120 sq foot slanted roof facing due south.
2) I want to take the adjacent trailer i live in off grid, with combination of 12 volt rewiring, though grid power is available.
I will take these experiments and learn from them.
Funny I owned a big arse victorian home near Newport News Shipyard in the 1990's rarely had a bill over $30, alot were around $10 a month, many bills were under 20 KWH for the month.
T
Funny I owned a big arse victorian home near Newport News Shipyard in the 1990's rarely had a bill over $30, alot were around $10 a month, many bills were under 20 KWH for the month.
I suspect your memory is faulty. That's the consumption of 3-4 light bulbs in a month.
For the intended purpose, this is nothing more than the most polluting solution going. First, there is the waste of $7000 for a backup battery array. Then there is the materials used to make it, the energy used to manufacture it, the fossil fuels used to transport it, the human effort to install it so one home can have emergency battery power in case the utility power goes out.
But hey, Musk said it is a miracle so get in line to pay up, to LEASE a battery.
For $7,000, I could build two water tanks in my backyard. When my solar panels are running at full tilt during the day (when I'm at work and thus using little to no electricity), I will run a water pump to pump water from a tank on the ground to a second tank as high as I can put it.
When I get home, I'll run the water in reverse back down to the bottom tank and use the falling water to generate my own hydro electricity.
In cold climates you can use antifreeze so it doesn't gum up the system with ice.
I just solved the "batteries suck" issue.
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