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The effective temperature of the earth is -21 degrees C. The actual average temperature across the entire surface of the planet is +15 C. The effective temperature is a constant value and has nothing to do with climate change, it is calculated from the energy absorbed and energy emitted by the earth. The actual temperature differs from the effective due to the greenhouse effect of the atmosphere.
Many people would prefer that the greenhouse effect not change; that is the essence of the AGW debate. If it doesn't change, than the "exact proper temperature" of the earth should be +15 C.
I hope that answers your question.
So there we are. Everything is operating within normal standards. Thank you.
So there we are. Everything is operating within normal standards. Thank you.
Or was. That calculation was done many years ago. It is found in most test books on Atmospheric Physics, which I studied 30+ years ago. Someone will have to look to see what the actual temperature is today from satellite measurements.
Or was. That calculation was done many years ago. It is found in most test books on Atmospheric Physics, which I studied 30+ years ago. Someone will have to look to see what the actual temperature is today from satellite measurements.
But then someone has to determine what the exact "correct" temperature is and why. As you state the temperature today may be different than 30 years ago which may be different than 3 centuries ago. So which is correct and why?
But then someone has to determine what the exact "correct" temperature is and why. As you state the temperature today may be different than 30 years ago which may be different than 3 centuries ago. So which is correct and why?
Instead of referring to a "correct" temperature it may be more helpful to talk in terms of making sure our actions don't cause relatively rapid changes in global temperatures. Of course the earth has been different temperatures at different times, but a rise of say 5 degrees C in 200 years would probably be a Bad Thing.
But then someone has to determine what the exact "correct" temperature is and why. As you state the temperature today may be different than 30 years ago which may be different than 3 centuries ago. So which is correct and why?
Obviously if it is 2 degrees warmer today than it was 50 years ago, then it has warmed up.
Change in temperature is more important than absolute temperature. The thermal expansion coefficient of water is about 0.0002 meaning that for every degree Centigrade the temperature rises, it expands by .02%. That does not sound like a lot except for the fact that the ocean is 10,000 feet deep for much of it and a .02% change in volume results in a rise of 2 feet in level.
The solubility of CO2 and of methane (there is enormous amount of frozen methane hydrate at the bottom of the ocean, and methane is a stronger greenhouse gas than CO2) in the ocean goes down as the temperature of the ocean rises. So again, the important thing is the change in temperature. The ocean will expel more dissolved CO2 and will release trapped methane. This adds to the greenhouse effect, making it even warmer and in turn releasing more CO2 and methane. This is a classic positive-feedback loop which is never a good thing.
The planet is fine. The people are f*cked. -- George Carlin
Overall, life adapts to abrupt climate change. The question is whether humans can adapt without mass starvation, refugee crises, political chaos, wars over food and water, etc.
Trump makes no secret of it, we are screwed, actually well beyond that, https://www.greatagain.gov/policy/en...pendence.html: The Trump Administration will make A9merica energy independent. Our energy policies will make full use of our domestic energy sources, including traditional and renewable energy sources. America will unleash an energy revolution that will transform us into a net energy exporter, leading to the creation of millions of new jobs, while protecting the country’s most valuable resources – our clean air, clean water, and natural habitats. America is sitting on a treasure trove of untapped energy. In fact, America possesses more combined coal, oil, and natural gas resources than any other nation on Earth. These resources represent trillions of dollars in economic output and countless American jobs, particularly for the poorest Americans.
Rather than continuing the current path to undermine and block America’s fossil fuel producers, the Trump Administration will encourage the production of these resources by opening onshore and offshore leasing on federal lands and waters. We will streamline the permitting process for all energy projects, including the billions of dollars in projects held up by President Obama, and rescind the job-destroying executive actions under his Administration. We will end the war on coal, and rescind the coal mining lease moratorium, the excessive Interior Department stream rule, and conduct a top-down review of all anti-coal regulations issued by the Obama Administration. We will eliminate the highly invasive "Waters of the US" rule, and scrap the $5 trillion dollar Obama-Clinton Climate Action Plan and the Clean Power Plan and prevent these unilateral plans from increasing monthly electric bills by double-digits without any measurable effect on Earth’s climate. Energy is the lifeblood of modern society. It is the industry that fuels all other industries. We will lift the restrictions on American energy, and allow this wealth to pour into our communities. It’s all upside: more jobs, more revenues, more wealth, higher wages, and lower energy prices.
The Trump Administration is firmly committed to conserving our wonderful natural resources and beautiful natural habitats. America’s environmental agenda will be guided by true specialists in conservation, not those with radical political agendas. We will refocus the EPA on its core mission of ensuring clean air, and clean, safe drinking water for all Americans. It will be a future of conservation, of prosperity, and of great success.
Since absolute majority of the scientists agrees on athropomorphic threats to climate and ecology, I wonder about the Coast to Coast AM quacks Trump administration would employ as scientific advisors.
Last edited by RememberMee; 11-10-2016 at 04:01 PM..
The planet is fine. The people are f*cked. -- George Carlin
Overall, life adapts to abrupt climate change. The question is whether humans can adapt without mass starvation, refugee crises, political chaos, wars over food and water, etc.
Life is an abstraction, it doesn't do darn thing, many if not most species would follow us, or we would follow them into oblivion, but as long as a few simplest life forms would survive the planet is OK.
So let us see. You say you care about the environment yet you use electricity, oil, plastics and heavy metals? Hmmmmm......
This is the most ridiculous argument.. what do you expect environmentalists to do?.. they still have to work, and eat and move around.. you know "human stuff"...
I checked my energy consumption with my utility company recently and we're consuming 60% less energy than other consumers in my area, but we still consume energy... we heat the home (to 65 degrees), we use major appliances in the kitchen like the oven and the fridge. We like hot water for showering.
We do own a car, but fortunately my husband takes the bus (for free) and I ride an electric bike for work. One kid walks and another takes a bus. I take the car once a week on a 10 mile loop to get groceries. One weekend each month we don't drive (or spend money) at all. Most weekends we will drive either of the days.
Our transportation costs are under $2000/annually. An average family spends about $9000.
Not perfect.. but hey, the difference is enough to max out my IRA for the year!
Plastics are incredibly useful and practically essential in food preparation and health care, but they can be over used. I've made a lot of small subsitutions over the years that have become habitual... reusing empty food packaging as a wastebasket or to empty the litter box. Buying pantry-stable food items in bulk and reusing bags for that. Finding the most acceptable product that uses the least amount of packaging (Scotts brand of toilet paper at Target for example doesn't wrap the toilet paper rolls within the outer packaging... all other brands do). Stuff like that..
But yeah, like I said, we're still humans so we still need to wipe our asse$s.
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