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Old 08-15-2022, 08:37 AM
 
1,105 posts, read 1,250,739 times
Reputation: 1710

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The satellite records measure outgoing radiation (not actually temperature). If you check the UAH site, they consistently show that the troposphere is getting warmer, while the stratosphere is getting cooler -more energy "trapped" in the lower air, but the over all escape of energy at the Top of the Atm (TOA) seems to indicate that for the last 40 yrs (the extent of this record), the atm seems to be warming at 1.3degC/century-- way less than the IPCC 4-6deg estimated by their models. https://www.drroyspencer.com/2022/08...022-0-36-deg-c
Stratosphere getting cooler and Troposphere getting warmer is because we are not in equilibrium due to continually adding green house gas to the atmosphere. I cant discount at all what the IPCC predicts. I believe they predict based on actual land based measurements taking into account feedbacks and non linear effects. Spencer number is past history based on satellite data which for some reason shows sllightly lower change. Im not really in a position to evaluate.. but everyone is definitely saying its going to get warmer.

If you are in a area that will get nicer because of the warming, doing nothing makes sense. If you in an area where you are going to get screwed by the changes, you might have a different opinion. I think rising global population is going to meet changing global climate and some bad stuff is going to happen. My opinion.. we should at least try and slow the change so we have more time to adapt.

I have little faith we can actually do anything. You have to have long range foresight and its complicated science. Pretty easy to give folks some reason to not care. Look at some of the responses in this thread. I assume all the posters below vote the same which I find a little odd..

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Meanwhile, we will raise middle-class taxes, and then give all of that money away to foreign governments for them to pretend to save the environment
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I've heard that Al Gore's huge house uses about 10 times the electricity that an average person does.
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You're living in a desert. The places you are currently living were absolutely never intended to provide the amount of water that they are currently providing to that region. The Colorado river's flow has been butchered, diverted, and completely altered from its original path prior to human involvement.
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It snowed twice in San Antonio when I lived there just a few years ago. There was also a massive blizzard unlike we'd ever seen in 1996, and then again in 2014 in the D.C. Metro Area.
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Humans have been exhaling CO2 since they first appeared on planet earth. Only since politicians have found ways to increase taxes for anything CO2 related has CO2 been the bad guy
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Old 08-15-2022, 09:05 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,253 posts, read 5,126,001 times
Reputation: 17747
Warming troposphere and cooling stratosphere is consistent with the GHG Theory-- the heat is kept down where the co2 is--One weakness of the argument is that a denser co2 layer down low will merely trap all the heat it can down there and get saturated (extinction of absorption)..Once all the energy is trapped, higher co2 won't do anything more...Kinda like Seinfeld's take --"Once you're wet, you're wet. You can't get any wetter."...

...another explanation besides GHGs?...Warming from any cause causes more evaporation, which brings more clouds, which traps more heat. (Also blocks more sun, causing cooling. What dominates?)

Because energy flows from high levels to low (hot to cold), the tropics won't get any warmer until the temperate latitudes are as hot as the tropics and the polar latitudes are as hot as the temperate-- like opening a window to let out heat to keep a room cool....Extinction of absorption should have occurred long before that happens, meaning that, for the planet to go once again into the "Hothouse Earth" phase of its cycles, something more powerful in terms of forcing climate must be operating.

Your previous post about La Nina/El Nino is more to the point-- oceans control the air temps & weather/climate on the decadal time scale http://icecap.us/images/uploads/amoarticlel.pdf Here's where the thing about trig math comes in-- the Atlantic has been cooling since 2003, and the solar cycle is also showing less activity-- We should be cooling off for the last 10 yrs or so, but we've only been staying stable...Maybe that cooling drive has been tempered by increasing co2 &/or the warming effects of efforts to cleanup particulate emissions over the last 30 or 40 yrs, for instance.

Anyway you look at it, a 2degF rise in world temps (mostly in the polar regions) over the next century won't be noticed in any practical way.
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Old 08-15-2022, 09:25 AM
 
7,072 posts, read 9,615,377 times
Reputation: 4531
I saw a big house with a sign in the front yard that says "Climate Action Now". This house was 4000 square feet minimum. I guess it never occurred to this home owner that moving into a smaller home that requires less energy to heat/cool might help the environment. Rules for thee but not for me mentality.
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Old 08-15-2022, 11:23 AM
 
880 posts, read 564,432 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcolorado View Post
I have little faith we can actually do anything. You have to have long range foresight and its complicated science. Pretty easy to give folks some reason to not care. Look at some of the responses in this thread. I assume all the posters below vote the same which I find a little odd..



Most of those quotes came from me, and in the same post.


Never the less, the arrogance of assumption is what I detest most about the climate posse. Your career is in no way related to climate or Earth sciences, nor is mine. But not only are you are not just convinced... you just KNOW that global warming is a problem that will bring about catastrophe.





Most of the examples of catastrophe provided in this thread of posts, are all completely misrepresented and not at all related to climate change. Forest fires in California, lack of available water in the desert, etc.


For 40 years, we've been told that the world is going to end. Every prediction has the world ending 10 years out. Miami is still not underwater, my home in Fort Lauderdale is still 11 feet above sea level, same as it was in 2003 when I bought it.



Yet... I'm constantly told that I need to sacrifice, all while those telling me I need to sacrifice are the ones who are literally NOT sacrificing. The only liberal, literally the only actual progressive that I've ever read or spoken to, is Ed Bagley Jr., who lives the life he proclaims others should.



I recycle, I compost. I donate, I reuse, I buy used cars and maintain them well, driving as little as possible. I work from home, and keep my air conditioning to a reasonable temperature). In the 2000s, I replaced all my bulbs to CFLs, and then to LEDs to save on power and reduce heat emanations. I've insulated, caulked every square inch of my house, while using foam gaskets between all my switch plates and outlets. I buy only low-energy appliances, and switched to an on-demand tankless water heater.


Yet... every time I do happen to be on the road, I see progressives in their massive SUVs with Coexist stickers, wrapped around two blocks waiting in line at the Starbucks drive-through... because the environment is so important to them, apparently.




Every time, we're told what we're supposed to be doing, and yet, those who tell us aren't actually doing it themselves. The real joke is that Democrat-run states don't even recycle. The vast majority of them simply dump everything in the landfill. Even when Democrat cities actually have a separate recycling bin, they're too ignorant to know that even though it's separate trucks, it's still being dumped in the same spot in the landfill. Meanwhile, Republican states like Florida are implementing Wheelabators throughout the state, recycling all metals and incinerating the rest (with scrubbers) to eliminate waste and reclaim resources.




The only solution Democrats propose, every single time, is a spending bill that invariably gives money directly to foreign governments to help solve THEIR problems. Which again, goes through the trickle-down of oligarchs, drug lords, and human traffickers. But Democrats are more focused on "global warming" rather than actually protecting the environment from things they actually can control.




So you'll excuse me if I'm "fresh out" of sympathy, or any concern whatsoever for the non-solutions you have to provide... other than the religion of selling Global Warming, without actually having a solution.
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:15 PM
 
1,105 posts, read 1,250,739 times
Reputation: 1710
Quote:
Never the less, the arrogance of assumption is what I detest most about the climate posse. Your career is in no way related to climate or Earth sciences, nor is mine. But not only are you are not just convinced... you just KNOW that global warming is a problem that will bring about catastrophe.
Cant accuse me of just "knowing" since I always back up any post making a point with a reference. Wish everyone did this, it really cuts down on BS. I get the feeling that you actually did not read any of this thread, just came on at the end with an angry rant about Democrat's LOL.. I feel bad that I actually wasted some time reading that..

Post something useful on the climate change discussion that you agree with or not (you might have to actually read posts in the thread - doesnt sound like you did) and fact check it yourself with the link.

Thank you by the way for actually posting some links on wildfire.
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:28 PM
 
880 posts, read 564,432 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcolorado View Post
Cant accuse me of just "knowing" since I always back up any post making a point with a reference. Wish everyone did this, it really cuts down on BS. I get the feeling that you actually did not read any of this thread, just came on at the end with an angry rant about Democrat's LOL.. I feel bad that I actually wasted some time reading that..

Post something useful on the climate change discussion that you agree with or not (you might have to actually read posts in the thread - doesnt sound like you did) and fact check it yourself with the link.

Thank you by the way for actually posting some links on wildfire.



Because it's a waste. I've long-since stopped caring about the global warming crisis, when the people telling me I should care, are not even doing the bare minimum, or to the extent that I'm doing.


Again, *every single solution* that progressives propose, leads to taking taxpayer money, and giving it to foreign governments. This is entirely a non-starter for me. The fact that there have been repeated end-of-the-world claims since I became an adult over 25 years ago, does not help sway me either. They've all been proven wrong.


For that matter, who are you concerned about, humans, or the planet? If every human disappeared tomorrow, you'd likely not even know humans existed on this planet a 1000 years from now, aside from a few ruins and the slight evidence of an existence of a road network. Plants and animals would have completely re-taken the Earth.
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:41 PM
 
1,105 posts, read 1,250,739 times
Reputation: 1710
More opinion. not worth reading.. Did you know there is a political forum on this site that would love to hear your angry opinions..

Post something regarding the science behind climate change - which is what this thread had been about before we got these angry rants, fact check it yourself so we dont have to and give the reference.

Here is topic for you to fact check yourself on..

Quote:
The fact that there have been repeated end-of-the-world claims since I became an adult over 25 years ago, does not help sway me either. They've all been proven wrong.
Thats a pretty clear broad statement, you even claimed its a fact. You must be an authority on IPCC predictions. I would like to see your backup on them being wrong. Cant find any references, must be just BS.. part of the angry rant.

Last edited by waltcolorado; 08-15-2022 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:50 PM
 
880 posts, read 564,432 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcolorado View Post
More opinion. not worth reading.. Did you know there is a political forum on this site that would love to hear your angry opinions..

Post something regarding the science behind climate change - which is what this thread had been about before we got these angry rants, fact check it yourself so we dont have to and give the reference.



You're telling me the world is ending, and you refuse to address the comments I've posed to you... that every "solution" presented has been to give taxpayer money to foreign governments. Please address that. Why has that been the solution to every problem, and how exactly do you see that solving global warming?


Planes, trains, and automobiles only account for 11% of petroleum-based energy. We could switch to Nuclear power, but this apparently is unacceptable too (I addressed this too). You've not addressed anything I've posed to you, except to say that I'm angry and my opinions don't matter.
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Old 08-15-2022, 01:07 PM
 
1,105 posts, read 1,250,739 times
Reputation: 1710
Just for the record, I dont see any backup for your "fact".

Quote:
The fact that there have been repeated end-of-the-world claims since I became an adult over 25 years ago, does not help sway me either. They've all been proven wrong.
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Old 08-15-2022, 01:29 PM
 
880 posts, read 564,432 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcolorado View Post
Just for the record, I dont see any backup for your "fact".



Are you asking me to make an itemized list of all the times a public figure said the world was going to end from global warming, within a time-period that has since already passed?


I assumed this was already well-known, and didn't need me to provide links.


Off the top of my head:

  • AOC said (4 years ago) that in 12 years, the world would end.
  • In 2006, Al Gore said the world would essentially come to an end as we know it within 10 years if we didn't make serious changes (that would have been 2016)


Ok, I'll start looking them up:


Ok... this is getting tedious... I don't have time to itemize them for you. You get the point. Here's 47 more: https://nypost.com/2021/11/12/50-yea...lypse-is-nigh/


And some more: https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-t...uld-end-by-now



And before you get frustrated on these links, they are direct quotes.



As an FYI, we are in the United States. In American-English, the period goes before the end-quote, without question. Only in British-English do you differentiate before or after. This goes for all American-English content, including published and peer-reviewed papers. Here's a link, so you can't say I didn't provide one. You'll be happy to know that they stand with Ukraine.


.
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