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Old 12-12-2022, 09:06 AM
 
474 posts, read 263,808 times
Reputation: 524

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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Ask a German about that.

https://www.electricrate.com/data-ce...es-by-country/

We pay only 1/3rd the cost of German Energiewende prices, but ours are also rising faster than inflation thanks to politcally motivated energy policiy here. https://quickelectricity.com/us-infl...tricity-rates/

Pretty simple logic-- If Unreliable Energy is so cheap, why is it taking so long to convert our sourcing? Amswer- because it isn't as cheap as its proponents claim. Switiching from whale oil lighting to town gas didn't require govt grants and tax breaks to accomplish. The Free Market made it happen.

Perhaps you've never heard of the principle of Supply & Demand. One needn't be an expert in physics, engineering or economics to see that increased demand will lead to increased cost. More EVs is more demand. More dmeand is higher prices.

Repeating The Big Lie only turns it into The Truth until it hits the public in the pocketbook.
The survey was California only. The German electricity market is structured differently. Maybe you didn't understand the article (revenue decoupling?). Are German electricity prices rising slower than inflation?
What's your point?
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Old 12-14-2022, 05:06 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,253 posts, read 5,126,001 times
Reputation: 17747
Interesting article written by a bus driver about the real life experience with EV busses in NZ. Do the arithmetic with numbers he gives concerning electical usage & miles driven. It turns out if we compare US prices for juice vs Diesel and his real life numbers, EVs in this application cost just as much or more for energy than Diesels, have outrageously high battery replacement costs vs maintainance costs of Diesels, and tremendously higher iniital capital costs and shorter duty life than traditional busses.

Some of the practical driving problems he mentions are specific to his geographc location-- winding roads with notable elevation changes affecting energy usage, and logistical problems of erratic adherence to schedules caused by unreliable vehicle performance.

What's really stupid in this specific case is the Green governing body replaced old fashioned but much cheaper and more reliable electric trolleys with these absurd monstrosities, and had to temporarily go to Diesels to make the transiton. (!!)

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot just to virtue signal about a non-existant problem.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/13/electric-buses/
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Old 12-15-2022, 10:04 AM
 
474 posts, read 263,808 times
Reputation: 524
US BEV sales up 60% ytd.

Quote:
Sales of all-electric cars in the US accelerate, which translates into a gradually increasing market share.

According to the latest registration data from Experian (via Automotive News), during the first ten months of 2022, some 604,638 new battery-electric cars (BEVs) were registered in the US, which is about 60% more than a year ago.

Registration data lags behind sales/deliveries, by at least several weeks, but can be used as a proxy of sales, especially because not all numbers are publicly available (specifically on a monthly basis)

BEVs accounted for about 5.3% of the total number of registrations (after September it was 5.2%), compared to 2.9% a year ago.

Tesla maintains its dominant position in the segment with almost two-thirds of all BEV registrations (65% share), but non-Tesla BEV sales increase faster (by 81% year-over-year).

BEV registrations in January-October 2022:

Tesla (65% BEVs): 391,937 (up 50.2% from 260,932)
Non-Tesla (35% BEVs): 212,701 (up 81% from 117,534)
Total: 604,638 (up 60% from 378,466) and 5.3% share (up from 2.9%)
https://insideevs.com/news/625909/us...s-october2022/
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Old 12-23-2022, 06:55 AM
 
1,110 posts, read 672,039 times
Reputation: 804
Urban apartment dwellers, how much of a hassle is it to manage charging an EV on a regular basis? How much worse would it be if everyone had an EV?
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Old 12-23-2022, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Dayton OH
5,762 posts, read 11,367,944 times
Reputation: 13554
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA Bubbleup View Post
Urban apartment dwellers, how much of a hassle is it to manage charging an EV on a regular basis? How much worse would it be if everyone had an EV?
There is a new upscale apartment complex across the street from my older (1961) 40 unit co-op owned apartment building. Nobody in my building has a BEV or plug in, because there are no charging stations in the garages, carports or open parking spaces.

The new apartment complex was pre-wired for EV charging stations in every carport and underground parking garage parking space! Even some of the outdoor uncovered parking spots have charging station pedestals. All the new resident does if they have an EV is pay for the material and installation cost of the charging station. The expensive and difficult part- getting the power wiring to the parking spot - is already done. The apartment complex owner has an electrician under contract that does all the work. I have seen 7 or 8 EVs in the parking spots at the new complex - lots of VW ID.3 that are built in the nearby factory in Zwickau (20 miles west).
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Old 12-23-2022, 01:34 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,253 posts, read 5,126,001 times
Reputation: 17747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey_C_Earwicker View Post
US BEV sales up 60% ytd.

Before we all get too enthralled with that tidbit-- Total US vehicle sales in '22 on the order of 6.5 million units.,,,of that, 5-6% (~500,000) of the sales were of EVs-- up from 3% last year-- and the most of the seeming increase in market share is a mirage due to the falling sales of ICEs in a recession year.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-u...-manufacturer/
https://joinyaa.com/guides/electric-...are-and-sales/

If your friends all drove their EVs off a bridge, would you drive yours off too? Why should we care what other people are doing?

..and I'm glad the German architects are looking ahead by wiring new parking garages for chargers...Now the engineers just have to figure out a way to get those wires hooked up to a reliable source of electricity. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/...energy-scheme/
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Old 01-04-2023, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,353 posts, read 5,129,553 times
Reputation: 6771
Great article from the Atlantic describing how current EV trends bring out the worst of America: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...safety/672576/

EVs are the future of the roadway, but the current incentive structures and purchasing trends are a giant mess creating more problems than they are solving. EVs in their current state are simply a big distraction taking time and money away from real enviornmental solutions.

1. EVs are much heavier and faster than their gas counterparts, leading to increased danger to other drivers, pedestrians, and fire danger.
2. EV giant trucks and SUVs are sucking up lithium and rare earth minerals at a very rapid pace, meaning smaller EV cars won't have them available at the same price.
3. There's no subsidy structure for smaller electric vehicles, like E-bikes or E-golf carts etc. These vehicles are vastly cleaner and only use a fraction of the resources. Americans don't need subsidies to buy luxury trucks, they already do that.

Bottom line, there's a little benefit from switching from ICE to EV, but enviornmentally the biggest wins are going from big to small, using less all across the board, and from the current trends, the opposite is happening.
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Old 01-04-2023, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,743 posts, read 22,654,259 times
Reputation: 24902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
That's a great answer, but what do we do with the waste they are going to create? It is figured that by 2035 there will be 720 million tonnes of e-waste just from solar panels alone and these panels contain toxic chemicals. The U.S. doesn't currently doesn't require solar panels to be recycled, and only one state, Washington, required the recycling of solar panels, the rest of the panels end up in landfills.
What do we do with the waste from coal? Nuclear? Being from West Virginia I can tell you the devastation wrought by coal tailing ponds. The fish kills from fracking solution discharge.

There is currently a COST for every method of producing energy, but you are focused on solar panels and batteries. An EV car has almost 50% less 'moving' parts than an ICE. Ever think about the reduced manufacturing impact? Less steel and aluminum smelted to produce an EV? What about the environmental cost of pumping oil out of tar sands or the ecological cost of oil spills? Valdez? The Gulf spill? The ppill on the Yellowstone river?

You're not being honest. You're being jaded.

Last edited by Threerun; 01-04-2023 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 01-05-2023, 03:31 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,253 posts, read 5,126,001 times
Reputation: 17747
I suggest you look into the actual "environmental costs" of the petrol & ICE industries vs the solar/wind/EV industries before you draw any conclusions. The cost of the new unreliables is magnitudes greater than the old.

Eg- fracking & fish kills-- 2,000,000 fracking operations in the US and only 2 or 3 reported "fish kills."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracki..._United_States
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=avast&q=fr...h+kills&ia=web

Cobalt mining https://duckduckgo.com/?t=avast&q=en...+mining&ia=web

Solar panels https://duckduckgo.com/?q=landfills+...t=avast&ia=web

Wind turbines https://duckduckgo.com/?t=avast&q=wi...dfills&ia=news

Land use/habitat destructuion of oil wells-- https://eplanning.blm.gov/public_pro...elds_units.pdf
Note that the oil wells are represented by a few discreet dots on this map of the 200,000 sq mi North Slope in AK.....While EACH wind turbine takes 1.5ac of habitat out of the natural habitiat pool https://sciencing.com/much-land-need...-12304634.html and there are now 70,000+ wind turbine sinthe US...7x10^4 x 1.5 = ~100,000 ac.
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Old 01-05-2023, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 5,000,282 times
Reputation: 3422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
What do we do with the waste from coal? Nuclear? Being from West Virginia I can tell you the devastation wrought by coal tailing ponds. The fish kills from fracking solution discharge.

There is currently a COST for every method of producing energy, but you are focused on solar panels and batteries. An EV car has almost 50% less 'moving' parts than an ICE. Ever think about the reduced manufacturing impact? Less steel and aluminum smelted to produce an EV? What about the environmental cost of pumping oil out of tar sands or the ecological cost of oil spills? Valdez? The Gulf spill? The ppill on the Yellowstone river?

You're not being honest. You're being jaded.

Currently, yes, ICE's use more aluminum than EV's, but that's about to change. Auto manufactures currently use ICE frame work to manufacture EV's, however, they are moving away from that concept and designing EV's from the ground up, using more aluminum. By 2030 the EV's demand on aluminum resources will increase 10 fold, this demand will strain the ability to mine bauxite ore and process it into alumina. To help with the increase in demand, mining operations will increase at the same rate as the demand for the bauxite ore. Have you ever looked at what is required to manufacture aluminum? It also is a very dirty process, unrestricted mining and processing of the bauxite into alumina contaminates rivers and drinking water and not left out is the destruction of wildlife habitat. Guinea, is one of the biggest suppliers of Bauxite ore in the world, by 2030 the mining of this ore will have consumed 858 sqKm of agricultural land and 4700 sqKm of wildlife habitat, that is an area 6 time more than New York City. The electricity required to turn alumina into aluminum, you make aluminum by running huge amounts of electricity through an alumina solution. At the moment, most of that energy comes from coal, a high carbon, highly polluting fuel. Aluminum production accounts for 2 percent of all greenhouse gases worldwide, or more than 1 billion tons of carbon dioxide equivalent each year by 2030 this will also increase by 10 fold.



I'm being very honest here, we are destroying lively hoods, ecosystems and the environment to produce something that is suppose to save the environment, just how insane is that. CO2 isn't the boogyman, without it there would be no life, as we know it, on this planet. Plants thrive on CO2, it is their life subsistence, CO2 levels of 500-1000 PPM are ideal for the majority of plants on this planet. Without plants there would be no land dwelling life forms, think about that.
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