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Old 02-29-2024, 04:57 PM
 
8,856 posts, read 6,846,043 times
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Great, let's not, except for limited high-value products (hops comes to mind). The way to do that is to eat as far down the food chain as possible.
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Old 02-29-2024, 06:55 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,119 posts, read 39,337,475 times
Reputation: 21202
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Please provide reference data showing my statents are wrong. It would appear your objections are based on wishful thinking, not facts.https://naturalresources.house.gov/n...umentID=368934
The burden of proof is on you for spouting this in the first place.

Do you have any idea what the link you just posted is compared to what you said about the Central Valley? You either have problems with basic reasoning or a poor grasp of the English language.

How is that link's statement of "More than half of the country's vegetables, fruits, and nuts are grown in California" and two charts of 20 and 30 items grown in all of California with about a quarter of them far from 90% equivalent to "Something like 90% of our human food produce comes from CAs central valley"?

Some of the top items are artichokes, figs, kiwifruit and pomegranates--what proportion of the total US grown (or consumed) produce are these as part of the standard US diet by frequency, pounds, caloric value, or monetary value? You don't seem to understand what you're looking at versus what you said.
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Old 03-01-2024, 02:07 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,234 posts, read 5,114,062 times
Reputation: 17722
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
...You don't seem to understand what you're looking at versus what you said.
Classic projection by those trying to defend the indefensible.

I didn't,r state with five place accuracy that CA produced 90.364% of our produce. From the info presented in my ref, we can see that the vast majority of items listed are in excess of 80%, and 2/3rds of them above 90%. The over all 50% number comes from the fact that they include dairy, rice & sweet potatoes on the list. QED....We,re still waiting for your ref data-- and being visited by the gods in a dream doesn,t count.
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Old 03-01-2024, 06:55 AM
 
Location: In the heights
37,119 posts, read 39,337,475 times
Reputation: 21202
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Classic projection by those trying to defend the indefensible.

I didn't,r state with five place accuracy that CA produced 90.364% of our produce. From the info presented in my ref, we can see that the vast majority of items listed are in excess of 80%, and 2/3rds of them above 90%. The over all 50% number comes from the fact that they include dairy, rice & sweet potatoes on the list. QED....We,re still waiting for your ref data-- and being visited by the gods in a dream doesn,t count.
Sure it's pretty simple to show references which is why it's odd that you couldn't.

USDA: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FS...cafacts_v3.pdf

Quote:
The Golden State’s agricultural abundance includes 400 different commodities. The state produces about half of U.S. - grown fruits, nuts and vegetables. With less than four percent of the nation’s farms and ranches, California produces over 13% percent of the nation’s agricultural production value.
California Department of Agriculture: https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/

Quote:
California’s agricultural abundance includes more than 400 commodities. Over a third of the country’s vegetables and nearly three-quarters of the country’s fruits and nuts are grown in California. California’s top 10 valued commodities for the 2022 crop year are:
Yes, these statements are about California as a whole and not Central Valley specifically, so these are a ceiling on how much the Central Valley yields, but even when considering the entire state, obviously "about half of U.S. - grow fruits, nuts and vegetables" is not "Something like 90% of our human food produce comes from CAs central valley" regardless of the number of significant figures used. These stats vary some from year to year of course, but none of those statements are about the number of significant figures nor is the criticism of what you said. Instead, it's that you don't seem to understand what you're posting.

You're saying this is projection, but the easier explanation is that you have a history of not quite understanding things you're posting like when you had an incredibly difficult time doing what were basic energy calculations as you could not get over parts of the pipeline being multiplicative instead of additive. I remember this pretty clearly, and perhaps you do, too.

This is another similar case of this. You say the "the vast majority of items listed are in excess of 80%, and 2/3rds of them above 90", but it didn't seem to occur to you that nowhere in the link you posted in either list of California Crops* whether the larger one that includes dairy and and rice or the smaller one of vegetables, fruits, and nuts is it claimed that the items listed are representative of "our human food produce" as you put it. That seemed to have completely been missed despite some pretty common items not on that list while what's on the list includes items that are comparatively rare for the US diet, and which I pointed out, such as artichokes (not canned if you want to stick with produce), dates, figs, kiwifruit, pomegranates and the like. You seemed to have completely missed that some of the most common items like apples, oranges, bananas (or if you only want US production rather than produce sold in the US), cherries, watermelons, blueberries, pears, cabbages, peanuts, fresh market tomatoes (rather than canned), cucumbers, green beans, mushrooms, potatoes, sweet corn, and so on alongside other things that are mentioned in the chart like lettuce, spinach, chili peppers, and bell peppers. All these links of individual items only serve as examples though as the main overarching point was answered in the beginning--no, it is not accurate to say "Something like 90% of our human food produce comes from CAs central valley."

*Note that a few of those crops aren't 90% from the Central Valley even within California because California has farmland with different climate conditions outside of the Central Valley

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-01-2024 at 07:15 AM..
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Old 03-01-2024, 02:46 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,234 posts, read 5,114,062 times
Reputation: 17722
Realizing I,m trying to argue against your religion, I,ll try to clarify things for you like this.... That reference lists 30 crops grown in CA. Twelve of them are considered vegetables, as opposed to fruits or nuts. Those twelve are grown mainly in the central valley. Among those 12,, eight of them represent more than 90% of US production and the other two more than 75% ....Other common veggies like beans sweet corn, peas and potatoes are not grown to any extent in CA..

My point still stands-- CA water & soil deterioration will soon make ag production of a significant portion of American produce impossible

If you insist its, 78.37823% rather than 90%, I,ll concede the point. That doesn,t change the conclusion.
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Old 03-02-2024, 06:25 AM
 
Location: In the heights
37,119 posts, read 39,337,475 times
Reputation: 21202
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Realizing I,m trying to argue against your religion, I,ll try to clarify things for you like this.... That reference lists 30 crops grown in CA. Twelve of them are considered vegetables, as opposed to fruits or nuts. Those twelve are grown mainly in the central valley. Among those 12,, eight of them represent more than 90% of US production and the other two more than 75% ....Other common veggies like beans sweet corn, peas and potatoes are not grown to any extent in CA..

My point still stands-- CA water & soil deterioration will soon make ag production of a significant portion of American produce impossible

If you insist its, 78.37823% rather than 90%, I,ll concede the point. That doesn,t change the conclusion.
Clearly you don't know what you're talking about as you're now basically reducing it to: of some crops that are mostly from California, those crops are mostly from California. Fine? That's a rather pointless statement. It's not what the argument was nor anything close to what you had stated initially of "Something like 90% of our human food produce comes from CAs central valley".

The link you posted made no claim even close to what you said. You also didn't realize there was no mention of commonplace items like apples, oranges, bananas, cherries, watermelons, blueberries, pears, cabbages, peanuts, fresh market tomatoes (rather than canned), cucumbers, green beans, mushrooms, potatoes, sweet corn, and so on.

Are you doing living off a diet of almonds, figs, kiwifruit, pistachios, and pomegranates? Is that why apples, oranges, cherries, cabbages, beans, sweet corn, peas and potatoes don't register as odd omissions for you?

I on the other hand did post a link that was directly about how much human produce comes from California though not Central Valley specifically. You should realize that there are a lot of farms that are not in the Central Valley as California has a large variety of climates and so some items California exports isn't majority from the Central Valley. If you want an accurate statement, then you can paraphrase from this link which says the state (California) produces about half of US grown produce (bottom of first page of only two pages; chose that link because then it's not too difficult for you to read). Here's a Central Valley specific link though it talks about the subset of table foods and about agricultural value overall: https://ca.water.usgs.gov/projects/c...al-valley.html

Quote:
Using fewer than 1% of U.S. farmland, the Central Valley supplies 8% of U.S. agricultural output (by value) and produces 1/4 of the Nation's food, including 40% of the Nation's fruits, nuts, and other table foods.
If we wanted to clarify this more, this isn't the same as US-consumed produce or produce consumed in the US nor does it state the Central Valley specifically produces it, but not in any of those interpretations would this amount to something like 90% or 78.37823% and you listing that seems to be a continuation of an inaccurate belief that this is about the number of significant figures. These are all quite far off from "about half" from California, and since that's statewide, the Central Valley is less than about half.

You are aware that a lot of the water in California goes towards pastures, hay, silage, and other sustenance for cattle / dairy operations, right? Not as much as the nut trees, but still a lot. It's also kind of funny that in talking about just one of your many erroneous claims, you just mentioned another one. "CA water & soil deterioration will soon make ag production of a significant portion of American produce impossible." Oh, really? Try to back that one up now. What's the "soon" and "significant portion of American produce" in this?

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-02-2024 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 03-02-2024, 06:39 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,323 posts, read 60,500,026 times
Reputation: 60911
https://www.ehn.org/in_california_sa...ure%20agencies.
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Old 03-02-2024, 07:08 AM
 
Location: In the heights
37,119 posts, read 39,337,475 times
Reputation: 21202
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Yea, and a good chunk of that is related to cattle especially from feeding cattle.

Mind you, that article is from 2017 and part of pushing California into action alongside another major issue of aquifer depletion. There is and has been an ongoing program to manage soil salinity in the Central Valley: https://norcalwater.org/2024/01/03/c...entral-valley/

California's relatively progressive among US states in managing larger land use issues which is not necessarily the case across all states.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-02-2024 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 03-03-2024, 05:15 PM
 
Location: clown world
547 posts, read 326,311 times
Reputation: 863
water moves around earth in a closed loop system. water shortages are only local issues
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