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Old 09-18-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 6,026,786 times
Reputation: 944

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Umm, yeah... Except it isn't really new technology. This was done in the 70's with the same small market and it died from the same flaws. Tell me something new that will actually meet people's needs. A new remade old technology toy for the wealthy is not what will make changes in the world. Practical technology will. Don't give me that old tired excuse of you just gotta accept the fatal flaws so it will be better in the future. That is not what makes progress becuase it isn't a viable solution.

And for the record, yes I did buy a personal computer in 1985 - all 64k of RAM that it had.
A few things have changed since the 70s. First, the interest in alternatives, and more specifically clean alternatives, is stronger. Second, battery technology has improved. Third, the world oil markets are such now that the collapse of the price of oil is less likely now. World demand has increased. And Donn2390 is right about the early adopters - the passionate and wealthy. Remember the first VCRs? Now you can get a VCR for under $50. Calculators that used to cost $10 or more are now given away for promotional advertising. Technology for the mass market nearly always improves and becomes less expensive simultaneously.

When I started saving for my first computer - a Commodore 64 - in 1982 it was priced at $595. By the time I actually got it in 1983 the price had dropped to under $200.

Hey, if you want an alternative to electric then maybe your interest will be part of the consumer demand for hydrogen or natural gas. Isn't the market great?
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:48 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 13,261,663 times
Reputation: 2192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
A few things have changed since the 70s. First, the interest in alternatives, and more specifically clean alternatives, is stronger. Second, battery technology has improved. Third, the world oil markets are such now that the collapse of the price of oil is less likely now. World demand has increased. And Donn2390 is right about the early adopters - the passionate and wealthy. Remember the first VCRs? Now you can get a VCR for under $50. Calculators that used to cost $10 or more are now given away for promotional advertising. Technology for the mass market nearly always improves and becomes less expensive simultaneously.

When I started saving for my first computer - a Commodore 64 - in 1982 it was priced at $595. By the time I actually got it in 1983 the price had dropped to under $200.

Hey, if you want an alternative to electric then maybe your interest will be part of the consumer demand for hydrogen or natural gas. Isn't the market great?
The trouble is that the improvements in this technology are nibbling at the edges of the real problems with this technology - not solving the big problems with it or even addressing them. Until it can do what people actually need instead of just whining that people ought to embrace it and live with its rather serious shortcomings, it isn't a viable industry.

Each one of your other examples provided an immediate valuable service to the user with the only initial downside being the cost. So, the wealthy bought it first, others clamored for it and the economies of scale brought down the price until it became ubiquitous. They are not comparable technologies.

Hydrogen fuel cells might be the answer charged by solar cells - someday - when the solar cells become less expensive and pay back is sooner than 15-20 years. Not here yet so the best we have now is the hybrids.

I did hear about some guy is driving around the world on no gasoline at all. Electric vehicle pulling a trailer with a solar array on it to fuel the car and the living trailer. Interesting concept but not very practical for most.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Thornton
402 posts, read 1,266,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
An electric car would be nearly useless for me, other than perhaps just to and from work. I drive to see friends and family. I drive for vacation, I drive for business trips. Can't do that with a vehicle that needs a long recharging session every 40 miles.

If they can improve the range AND make it a quick charge time, I'd consider one. They'd have to get up into the 300+ mile range and have a less than 15 minute recharge time for me to even consider one though.

Until then...more fuel efficiency or a motorcycle for me.
Like people have been saying on here. Not everyone needs to get one right away. When the first cars came out, not everyone got one because they were too expensive. Over time things change, they become more affordable and viable for the common person.

As for driving to see friends and vacation. I do the same thing, but that doesn't mean that electric isn't viable for me to commute 10 miles to work and 10 miles home. Someone else said they can't afford multiple cars, well that comes into the same process. I have 3 vehicles each with a specific purpose. I have a '01 Jeep Cherokee for the Colorado winters, skiing, camping, and times when I have to carry a lot of stuff. I also have an '82 Honda motorcycle that I use to get to and from work as long as it's over 30 degrees and no snow or rain forecast. Then I have a 1970 VW Bug which was my primary vehicle before the Jeep. It's old, so it's going under a restore, but I'm not putting the gasoline engine back into it. Instead I'm stripping it down, making it weigh less, and making it electric for getting to and from work and errands around town.

As for affordability... the Jeep is by far the most expensive ranking in at $10k that I still owe the bank. :-/ The motorcycle cost me $850 a year and a half ago (it's actually worth double that now that everyone is freaked by gas prices). The VW was $1500 back in 1997 and it's going to cost me about $6000 to make it electric. $6000 will actually take me almost 8 years to recoupe before it's financially beneficial to have made it electric instead of gasoline.

But if those that have the opportunity to push the limits and attempt things then society will not figure out how to make it a viable option for the general public. I know there's going to be issues with an all electric vehicle.... How do I safely find the limit of how far I can travel? What happens if I leave the headlights on in the parking lot of the grocery store? How will passengers effect my mileage? Do I need a backup battery seperate from the motor to run the lights/radio/etc? What happens if there's a short in the system? Who knows what other issues will show themselves once people start using them on a daily basis.... maybe I need to carry a 200ft extension cord with me everywhere I go instead of jumper cables like a gas vehicle does.

Would I spend $30k on a current technology electric vehicle? NO WAY! Am I willing to personally spend $6 and a lot of physical labor to help figure out what's fesable and what's not? YES!
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:23 PM
 
83 posts, read 418,886 times
Reputation: 62
The electric-only Aptera costs $27,000 and gets 120 miles before recharging and the interior is cooled by fans powered by solar cells on the roof. I fear that not until we have completely run out of oil will the major (American at least) car companies design and mass produce cars like this. Eight of the top ten Fortune Global 500 companies are automobile or energy (oil) companies, whatever happened to walking?
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