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I lile the idea of wind power; always have, even before I moved to one of the windiest areas of the country. We discussed putting up wind generators on our property, for not only our own personal use but perhaps even large ones for our small town, when we moved here.
Holy Crap what a bunch of hooey we have run into!!!
The turbine folk- associated with the power companies (Who's surprised? Hands?) have cute little plans to make the turbnes pay - for THEM - counting on the hype and hopes of folks who WANT to do the right thing.
Here's the scams.
1) They will NOT lease your property (not even for $1 a year) to put up the wind turbines. They must BUY your property. Then they can do whatever they please with it. (I thought the turbines would be awesome on the highest ridge, where the wind is the best and most constant, with my cows grazing aound them.) They can run roads, plow it up, gravel it, whatever they need to do. If they would lease it I wouldn't mind - once we no longer needed it we could come to an equitable arrangement, even writing the closing requirements into the initial agreement. But if they buy it - why, they don't have to do a thing with it. At all. Ever. Or they could sell it to a developer, or they could put up a coal or gas-fired plant, or any structures they choose. Nope. No way.
2) A lot of ranchers are selling their wind rights - for about $20,000 an acre - to scam artists talking about wind power potential, we just want the wind rights, we won't mess up your property, you can sell us the air above your land and it won't bother your crops or cattle at all. Unfortunately it is like selling your water or mineral rights - those who own those can come in and use the property whenever they choose, and there isn't a danged thing you can do about it when and if they decide to do so. Another fillip to this is that the speculators are selling the wind rights they garner from the ranchers in bulk - sometimes as low as $60,000 an acre, or as high as $120,000 an acre. The popular pronouncement around here is - "Don't sell it, Steve." So many are not getting the right info and are getting screwed out of their propertry still, though.
3) Here's the way they WILL lease the property from landowners. The landowner signs a ten-year lease with the turbine company. The Company comes in and puts up all of those great turbines. Nice. Pretty. Brannew and clean. Ahhhh. Not only that but the landowner gets the profits in a gradually increasing percentage over those 10 years. Lotta money. Sweet. But in accompaniment, the landowner gets a gradual aquisition of the property and turbines. So the first year he gets 10% of the property and profits back. By the 10th year he gets ALL of the profits and property back - and owns the turbines free and clear. Unfortunately, the turbines in 10 years have become obsolete, with steadily increasing mechanical failures. The landowner owns a large whirling (if he's still lucky) piece of equipment that has built-in obsolescence, and that will steadily cost him more and more to maintain. meanwhile the turbine folk are able (with their amassed profits) have gone on to something else, leaving tall and unworkable, deteriorating piles of steadily useless machinery standing on the property. Folks who bought property for a get rich quick scheme won't care - but folks who bought their property to make them money over time, not COST them increasingly more and more to maintain, will be screwed, and will own a pile of machinery that they wll be responsible for - and not be able to maintain. In 15 years, you will see whole fields of rusting wind turbines, falling apart, not maintained, and useless, if these people get their way. The word "sustainablilty" is a catchphrase that means nothing to these folk, eager to make their quick millions on the rising tide of hysterical faith and belief that 'green production' is the way to go.
4) Finally, the FedGov and states are disallowing public-private partnerships in turbine development. This means that if a private landowner has land near a town that he is willing to lease to the town to put turbines on - or if the town has property that is amenable for such development - the town can have NO such investment, no say in the matter, no profit in it, no way to cut its residents' utility bills by letting them use the turbine generated electricity and selling what is leftover back to the power company or to private companies to fill their coffers and take the burden off of the local taxpayer.
So T. B. Pickens is a profiteer. Not that I am surprised; it's called capitalism. And once the government gets involved with its subsidies, making it the biggest consumer and investor, it is no longer capitalism but enforced government spending, throwing taxpayers money into the pot of what should be a free-market enterprise, rising or falling solely on its own merits. There is too much political involevemnet, and for all of the wrong reasons, based solely on the hype and panting lemming-hysteria of 'going green', in turbine development, from what I've seen. And the profiteers and scam artists aren't just the ones living in Ethiopia, promising you two million for your investment of $10,000 in your last email. They are lobbying and pontificating in the halls of Congress, using everyone's greed, passion, and right-nowism to scam us all.
If I put up turbines at all, it will be after much more research - and small ones, for my own personal use. I can wait. You can bet that I won't put up anything that I cannot personally and without great expense maintain, and something that has longevity, and isn't a quick bandaid to the huge, growing, and gaping wound of need.
Fuels are required in the cold parts of the country or geothermal (too expensive for most at this time) as heat pumps (except the new colder climate setups which are also too expensive for most) can't keep up with the demands.
He starts adding electricity to the grid the prices of fossil fuels will start to decrease from a decrease in demand which will cause him to lose money...in a way it would be him plotting a business against his current money maker.
The only true way we will be able to put a dent in our energy needs is to approach it in a way Germany did. The trillion dollars Obama speaks of could add massive infrastructure such as these:
All our coal is in western ND, so that's where our 8 main power plants are (about 3800 mW total), and very little of the power in used instate.
Now 2 or 3 windfarms a year are being built and that all goes out of state, too. Just had 130 towers go up 10 mi north of town this summer and as many scheduled for next year, plus another the same size in the next county north. That one's a combo county/city/private owned and that will also all be 'shipped' out of state.
Other than that locally owned one going up next summer, and a couple smaller ones owned by local/regional power companies, Florida Power & Light owns all of them...7 or 8 farms at last count...I can't remember for sure, and they have plans for several more. They're drawing up the plans and obtaining right-of-way for a couple big transmission lines going all across the state with 'legs' going to the various farms. Those lines will then go across MN and then across either IA or WI, depending on where the final customers are. One will end in Chicago, and the other somewhere down south. As of now FPL has over 450 mW in North Dakota.
We only have a little over 600,000 or so people in ND, and most cities, colleges & factories each have their own small power plants (total of 23 coal or gas fired power plants in the state), so they don't use any of this wind or western coal/gas power, either.
Oh, and most of these wind generators kick in at 4 mph and shut off at around 45 mph. Our statewide wind average is around 7mph, so it's very seldom they're not running.
All our coal is in western ND, so that's where our 8 main power plants are (about 3800 mW total), and very little of the power in used instate.
Now 2 or 3 windfarms a year are being built and that all goes out of state, too. Just had 130 towers go up 10 mi north of town this summer and as many scheduled for next year, plus another the same size in the next county north. That one's a combo county/city/private owned and that will also all be 'shipped' out of state.
Other than that locally owned one going up next summer, and a couple smaller ones owned by local/regional power companies, Florida Power & Light owns all of them...7 or 8 farms at last count...I can't remember for sure, and they have plans for several more. They're drawing up the plans and obtaining right-of-way for a couple big transmission lines going all across the state with 'legs' going to the various farms. Those lines will then go across MN and then across either IA or WI, depending on where the final customers are. One will end in Chicago, and the other somewhere down south. As of now FPL has over 450 mW in North Dakota.
We only have a little over 600,000 or so people in ND, and most cities, colleges & factories each have their own small power plants (total of 23 coal or gas fired power plants in the state), so they don't use any of this wind or western coal/gas power, either.
Oh, and most of these wind generators kick in at 4 mph and shut off at around 45 mph. Our statewide wind average is around 7mph, so it's very seldom they're not running.
Sounds like electricity may very well be North Dakota's #1 export.
Just as I thought his "caring" for the environment and high oil prices was all fake, he comes out and says natural gas prices are too low for him to do the wind farm project... Ahh... I see becuase those turbines run on natural gas? No? Okay, it must be because the wind energy it generates is transferred to homes using natural gas... No? Okay then I guess it was just a bunch of greed and lies as I said earlier... He wants natural gas prices to DOUBLE before he commits to wind energy (as well as asking billions of FREE MONEY from the government)... wind energy was bunk and always has been bunk... I am all for alternative energy but wind energy was a "liar cure" and a lot people bought it hook, line, and sinker... there are much better alternative energies available... none of which will make Pickens HEIRS any money...
and 60 minutes was duped also when they ran a story on him about wind power. it is only about $$ for him.
That's right, it's known as advertising.
T-bone was looking for a fat, dumb government to do the hard work and, oh yeah, most of the financing. He would build the money factories.
Yes, Virginia, there actually are people who care about the country and try to make it better.
Usually they're not on TV telling you how wonderful they are, though.
yep. t-bone also got free advertising on 60 minutes. it can't get any better than that. how many millions watch this highly rated show!
What's really scary is that Saudia Arabia says it costs them 2 dollars to produce a barrel of oil, but that it takes 55 dollars a barrel for them to make it worth their effort. Now doesn't anyone find it disgusting that their standard of living requires $53 dollars a barrel in profit?
More importantly, what if America got that $53 dollars a barrel to increase OUR standard of living?
The other thing to keep in mind is that the real cost of a gallon of gas to society (air pollution clean up, health care costs, etc) figures out to 15 dollars a gallon. Gasoline also consumes 3 gallons of fuel for every gallon that is burned on US soil. So suddenly you see that wind is about as free as can be obtained.
I can't stand the fact that our American dollars are going to countries like Saudia Arabia. This is the ONLY reason I support the Pickens Plan. OUR money should stay in OUR country. If we can reduce our reliance on foreign oil, however that may be done, we should do it.
Sounds like electricity may very well be North Dakota's #1 export.
No, I think agriculture is still #1, tho all energy (coal, oil, wind/electricity, etc) is second or third. Tourism may still be #2. The newest info I could find was 2-3 years old, so none of the new windfarms nor the last couple year's oil boom would have been included.
Don't forget that they have to pipelie it and then ship it around the world. It the same for all products.Getting it to refineries is a huge cost.
if the numbers are accurate for oil production then why aren't we stockpiling huge quantities at the current price (assuming it is now cheaper to buy than produce)? is it because our credit is not stable enough to be able to buy large quantities now? is it because we are trying to help saudi arabia drive up their oil prices by consuming less?
I'm big into birding and support an organization that studies and protects raptors( birds of prey) as well as studying migratory bird species. They have concerns about wind farms harming birds and apparently it is a real problem. I think there is a place for wind power( or solar) but it is not the miracle some want us to believe it is.
And why the push for low tech and green technology? I was always told that the next power source we'd have would be fusion and it would revolutionize the way we live. It just seems we're being pushed back instead of trying to move forward. Batteries? That is a technological dead end, too. You know HORSES can pull wagons and they don't use any gas. Somebody call Al Gore and Mr. Obama, I think we just might have the next energy source!
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