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Old 04-28-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
7,970 posts, read 26,757,946 times
Reputation: 3925

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoonman View Post
Prime example of projection - see above.
Actually, I continue to smile about the fact that Moderator cut: No flaming Kathy Freston as a credible source for any of this.

Last edited by vec101; 04-29-2009 at 06:30 AM..

 
Old 04-28-2009, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,872,615 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Actually, I continue to smile about the fact that Moderator cut: No flaming Kathy Freston as a credible source for any of this.
Moderator cut: No flaming

Last edited by vec101; 04-29-2009 at 06:31 AM..
 
Old 04-28-2009, 11:31 PM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 8,387,246 times
Reputation: 878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
People don't stop watering their lawns because they don't want to. We want lawns that look like putting greens, even if those lawns are out in the middle of a desert.

While I'm not really an advocate for forcing people to do, or not do, certain things, I think it's pretty important to realize that there's a world of difference between watering a lawn and watering (irrigating) a field of crops. One has to do with production of food, while the other has simply to do with vanity.
Everything is about demand. In many cases people believe that as long as they are paying they can demand what they want. At this point, most people demand cheap stuff, including cheap food, which is why the processes used are not the most "green." Although there are always ways to improve things, if people wanted to.

I found these articles interesting. Since they describe the issues and problems, but show a possible solution.

http://www.reuters.com/article/envir...BrandChannel=0


Texas city plans to convert human waste to energy | Reuters
 
Old 04-29-2009, 02:15 AM
 
1,297 posts, read 3,528,675 times
Reputation: 1524
You are absolutely right. In this country we have two choices...we can pay the farmer for quality food or we can pay the doctor for pills and Dr visits. And the latter is what we have chosen to take as a society.

As a dairy farmer I have seen this first hand. We are currently getting paid LESS than what it costs us to produce the milk. This is just not right, and yet how can we as society allow this?

It is pretty simple. Milk is the staple of the American Diet and we need to keep the costs of that milk down, or our society will choose other drinks that are even more harmful. If we actually got paid what milk was worth, many people could not afford it. Could you imagine what would happen to society if milk was replaced with soda? Our diabetic rate for children would sky rocket far greater then it is now. Obesity in the entire population would increase, and then there is the issue with dental hygeine. There are other consequences of drinking soda, highly sugared juices, etc...but you get the point. Can you imagine what our medicaid and other medical related services for the children, elderly and poor would be then? In a goofy sort of way, the Government is keeping the price of milk low so that it actually saves money for society in the long run.

The only way to keep dairy farmers creating this milk is to subsidize their operations. It is a very thin line to maintain...a balance between just enough money for the farmer, and yet low enough for the consumer to buy with subsidies being thrown in when the balance gets thrown off. (we are at this stage right now)

It is a crummy system, but the way I see it, until society chooses to take their health more seriously, then this is the way it has to be. Go through a grocery store and laugh along with me as you see a family with 1 gallon of milk in their cart and two 24 packs of soda!! If the price of milk was just a bit higher, there would be 3 24-packs of soda and no milk at all. It's silly, yet it happens all the time.
 
Old 04-29-2009, 01:11 PM
 
98 posts, read 198,420 times
Reputation: 173
The other difference is that the genetic requirements for production farming are far different then that of raising show quality sheep and goats. There is nothing wrong with the later, but the virtues of cross-bred vigor are well renowned. By your own admission you took two pure-breed breeds and mixed them together...you are hoping to get the best of both breeds to gain traits that are productive. BUT it will take a few years of cross-breeding to get the exact traits you want. On your first trial you got parrot-mouth...no big deal you cull them and try again until the traits begin to get more favorable.

I did NOT breed the two breeds together for "hybrid vigor"! The first kid born with a slight parrot mouth was from a PUREBRED Saanen to another PUREBRED Saanen. About a month later comes along another parrot mouthed kid. This kid was from a PUREBRED Toggenburg bred to another PUREBRED Toggenburg! As I said earlier, two seperate breeds, entirely! I am NOT in it to win shows, but trying to help preserve breeds that are slowly losing purestock because of people that want to win, win, win... Just because I am producing some show/milk doesn't mean that is all I care about. My small herd must produce milk first and foremost. That enables me to raise a couple edible critters for my own dinnerplate & make cheese, etc... I was told the corn that my dealer was using was supposed to be organic, no weed killers, etc... On further question, not only was the corn a hybrid, genetically modified crop, but it of course, was not organic! So now I will grow my own! The main point I tried to make when this thread arose, is "small" farms have LESS of an impact on good ol' Mother Earth! As there are less invasive measures that we can do, so as NOT to have HUGE farms dumping their wastes, etc., into our waterways, and less need for chemicals to produce healthy foods to help feed us omnivores!
 
Old 04-30-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
24,908 posts, read 39,350,643 times
Reputation: 4937
After reading through most of these posts, I have come to a decision:

I'M GOING TO HAVE A STEAK FOR DINNER!

And, I'm going to keep eating beef, pork, chicken etc.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 05:50 PM
 
1,297 posts, read 3,528,675 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshire View Post
The main point I tried to make when this thread arose, is "small" farms have LESS of an impact on good ol' Mother Earth! As there are less invasive measures that we can do, so as NOT to have HUGE farms dumping their wastes, etc., into our waterways, and less need for chemicals to produce healthy foods to help feed us omnivores!
I disagree, and that is why I often tell people that I am not into the whole local food mentality that is taking route today, but instead prefer to buy regionally. I have no problem buying eggs and meat off my fellow area farms, but it is silly to think that the impact to the earth is less having two dozen local farms producing what one big farm would produce.

It is called economy of scale.

My small 25 hp Kubota will actually burn more fuel per acre trying to till land dragging a 6 foot disc harrow behind it for corn planting then using our 400 horsepower New Holland dragging a 33 foot disc harrow behind it. The trick is to match the drawbar pull to the horsepower and get the ratio in the 75% range! My Kubota gets perhaps 2 gallons of fuel per acre while our New Holland gets about 3/4 of a gallon...so that benefits the environment directly.

Of course the argument has been made that trucking fuel from distant states is less environmentally friendly then buying local food. Well the truth is, the small amount of fuel the truck burns hauling 60,000 pounds of food regionally will use less fuel then what a slew of local farmers tractors use to grow the food locally.

But there is benefits to having area farms that outweigh just the fiscal benefits. That is the reason I don't see any problem with people from say Maine curtailing their diet to keep from having Baby Carrots hauled across the country from California. Or from having people curtail their diets to keep food from that is out of season here, from being imported from the southern hemisphere. We do need to keep farms in the areas farming. To do that, as a Mainer I see nothing wrong with buying food from farmers in our region, or what I would define as the New England area. Its a good cross between economics and "local food". It keeps farmers in Maine (rural) producing food for those in the urban areas in and around Boston.

You only need to look at Maine's dairy industry to see how well this regional system works. We produce enough milk in New England to keep the price high enough for farmers, and enough production for consumers. It is when they start importing milk from new York and Canada that it upsets the supply and demand and things get messed up.

I have no issue with what you ar doing and feel it is commendable...anyone that can do for themselves should and that includes growing your own corn. But I think your basis of blaming GM Corn for your gentics problem is rather unfounded. Recessive genes can show themselves in the next off-spring, or years down the road. Feeding your livestock a bit of GM Corn isn't going to be the culprit of parrot-mouth I can assure you. As I said before, my sheep have always been fed GM Corn and the lambs have been outstanding.
 
Old 05-02-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Subarctic maritime Melbourne
5,054 posts, read 6,918,602 times
Reputation: 2862
I am never, ever going to cut back on meat just to appease the hippie tree hugging fanatics.

I am, and always will be, a carnivorous individual.
 
Old 05-02-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,547,003 times
Reputation: 24746
Oh, dear. I'm a carnivorous old hippie with a spiritual (as well as physical) reason for eating meat (having to do with having REAL respect for the other animals on the planet). I didn't realize the two were mutually exclusive!
 
Old 05-02-2009, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,872,615 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Oh, dear. I'm a carnivorous old hippie with a spiritual (as well as physical) reason for eating meat (having to do with having REAL respect for the other animals on the planet). I didn't realize the two were mutually exclusive!
So you respect those animals so much that you kill them and eat their dead carcasses? Riiiigght!
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