An Earth Day Reflection On The Breathtaking Effects Of Cutting Back On Meat (climate, cost)
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Tell me, Ex-Pat, do you go around preaching to and insulting lions and tigers and bears? Are you one of those appalling people who tries to make their canine and feline companions vegetarian or, worse, vegan, trying to convince them (and yourself) that they don't need to eat meat? Or is it just your fellow humans that you regard in that manner and, if so, how do you justify it to yourself? Do human beings somehow cease to be animals worthy of your respect by the virtue of sharing more DNA with you? I think you have to do more mental gymnastics than you'll let yourself acknowledge.
Or is it living more according to nature's design for us that irks you so much? Are we supposed to somehow be "above" that and know better than nature herself? (Yes, I realize there are people that believe that, of both stripes, and set about trying to change things, including other people, to fit their personal idea of "better", but I think there's precious little to choose between them in terms of their true attitude towards those who share the planet with them, be they human animals or not. Both expressions of that attitude of "I'm better than anything and anyone else on the planet and know better than whoever or whatever created it all" risk being the destruction of us all.)
I see a touched a nerve! No, No, and No. I don't go around preaching any more than you do but if someone makes a statement which seems like quite a stretch - I'll question it. Omnivores question me all the time (and say the rudest things) so I guess I've grown thicker skin than you have (and have been forced into constant introspection on this issue). It appears you are not accustomed to anyone asking why you live the way you do.
Questioning people's logic and intentions is how we can understand someone else's perspective. When the responses indicates the person is being a hypocrite by make huge leaps which allow that person to do exactly what they want while still (tenuously) holding to a contrary belief, I'm left scratching my head. Its sort of like the famous "we had to destroy the village in order to save it" mentality.
I think I'm living within nature's design and apparently, so do you. Its just that my view does not say that I revere nature by killing animals so I can eat them and wear their skin. If that isn't placing yourself above other living beings, I don't know what is. Nonetheless, I wish you the best on this journey and invite you to consider if your beliefs and lifestyle are truly aligned.
Hey, I've lived in Austin for decades - I'm VERY used to people asking why I live the way I do. And trying to get me to change it so that they can shore up their decisions by getting everyone else to agree with them. No nerve touched here. Have to try harder than that.
The post you quoted, by the way, wasn't addressed to you, so you didn't touch a nerve even if one was. I do find it funny that you talk about disconnects while ignoring one of my primary points, which was that the very people who are most likely to decry the attitude that the planet is here for the reaping as being disrespectful are equally disrespectful in their own attitudes and cannot see that there is precious little to choose between the two, that they grow out of the same motivation of "I'm better than the rest of creation" (and in both cases, than all other people who might not share my beliefs or decisions as to how to live).
I never preach to people that they should eat meat (I may think it about the occasional person who is vegetarian and clearly unhealthy, thinking that perhaps they are on the same end of the bell curve that I am and their body needs meat while those who are on the other end don't and it doesn't agree with them).
I will acknowledge that one of the things that spurred me to think about the various reasons that I eat meat was the posturing and presumptions of ethical and moral superiority on the part of people who so very clearly weren't and who were vegetarian so that they could preach (they needed something to preach about) and feel superior to others. I wanted to look at the various reasons I do what I do and my own belief system. That that examination lead me to an understanding that contradicts what you think I should believe and be doing does not invalidate it, any more than what you do and believe not agreeing with mine invalidates yours.
Sorry, I don't think that there are any more huge leaps going on among those who eat meat than there are among those who are vegetarian or vegan.
But if not eating meat agrees with you, by all means, have at it. Just don't try to get everyone else to shore up your own convictions for you by insisting that everyone else agree with you.
Hey, I've lived in Austin for decades - I'm VERY used to people asking why I live the way I do. And trying to get me to change it so that they can shore up their decisions by getting everyone else to agree with them. No nerve touched here. Have to try harder than that.
The post you quoted, by the way, wasn't addressed to you, so you didn't touch a nerve even if one was. I do find it funny that you talk about disconnects while ignoring one of my primary points, which was that the very people who are most likely to decry the attitude that the planet is here for the reaping as being disrespectful are equally disrespectful in their own attitudes and cannot see that there is precious little to choose between the two, that they grow out of the same motivation of "I'm better than the rest of creation" (and in both cases, than all other people who might not share my beliefs or decisions as to how to live).
I never preach to people that they should eat meat (I may think it about the occasional person who is vegetarian and clearly unhealthy, thinking that perhaps they are on the same end of the bell curve that I am and their body needs meat while those who are on the other end don't and it doesn't agree with them).
I will acknowledge that one of the things that spurred me to think about the various reasons that I eat meat was the posturing and presumptions of ethical and moral superiority on the part of people who so very clearly weren't and who were vegetarian so that they could preach (they needed something to preach about) and feel superior to others. I wanted to look at the various reasons I do what I do and my own belief system. That that examination lead me to an understanding that contradicts what you think I should believe and be doing does not invalidate it, any more than what you do and believe not agreeing with mine invalidates yours.
Sorry, I don't think that there are any more huge leaps going on among those who eat meat than there are among those who are vegetarian or vegan.
But if not eating meat agrees with you, by all means, have at it. Just don't try to get everyone else to shore up your own convictions for you by insisting that everyone else agree with you.
You seem to be ignoring the accepting and concilatory language in my posts above perhaps because you enjoy the argument aspect.
But, since you seem to be so eristic, here goes. I find it downright laughable that you think I'm looking to shore up my own beliefs. I sense a strong dose of projection there! My beliefs are rock solid since they withstand the battering ram of mainstream society every day.
I find it very telling that you describe "...ethical and moral superiority on the part of people who so very clearly weren't..." ?? The only person on this thread bent on who is superior and who is not is you. Frankly, I'm not interested in playing king/queen of the hill - you are welcome to it.
Far from ignoring your ideas on people's approach to caring for the planet (and those who don't), I'm just pointing out to you the incongruence of your stated belief with your stated way of living. Like I''ve said a few times before, I can respect someone who says they love the taste of meat and its important to them to keep having it. But, when someone says they love animals so much that they want to eat them, it doesn't make sense.
Far from contradicting my beliefs (a comparison I could care less about), the way you describe it - your beliefs contradict with your actions. Perhaps if you explained it more clearly, I would understand but the roundabout way you present it makes it all sound incoherent.
Do with that observation what you will and once again, I wish you the best on this journey.
Wow, this reminds me of the first book of the bible where the first homicide took place. Apparently some of us have forgotten how we are commanded by God to live by his word, and the story of Cain and Able spells it out the best. Perhaps all of us should consult the Good Book with very thin pages and see which the Almighty Lord took preference in...Livestock or Veggies.
Thankfully via the story of Easter we no longer have to make offerings, but as a livestock producer you can rest assured that I am blessed with seeing the spiritual side of raising livestock and the passages and symbolism of the bible. Of course it helps that I raise lamb and they are mentioned so many times in the bible stories.
Incidentally I do raise my livestock as humanely and compassionately as I can. It simply boils down to health livestock tasting the best. I actually employ a sheep nutritionalist to ensure the livestock in question is healthy. When they eat healthy, they are less prone to disease, the affects of the weather and even predadation since a lagging animal is preyed upon first. Prevention is far less expensive then medicines and management cures, so it all boils down to a higher profit margin, but it matters little if I lose repeat customers via faulty tasting meat and treating livestock compassionately ensures that I have the tender chops lamb is renowned for.
With good nutrition I ensure every possible ounce obtainable is gleaned from the carcass and is teeming with protein and trace minerals our bodies need. At the same time, the livestock must be treated with compassion. Yelling and physically abusing livestock will mean the animal is stressed and can lead to "dark cutters." This is darkened meat that is tough from the contracted muscles of the livestock upon death. Physical abuse is no better as it means the meat is bruised and will be left in the renderings rather then being part a a tasting expensive cut. Even in well treated animals, how the livestock is ultimately killed can lead to a "dark cutter." The faster and quicker the final act is done greatly affects the meat and is one of the reasons I always do the final deed by myself. It means the animal is not subjected to a ride at 60 mph down a highway, or is stressed upon entering a strange facility. They are merely at rest when the end comes and that translates into the best meat possible.
I doubt this will satisfy some naysayers, but for the greatest part of the population, this should greatly explain how a producer can raise livestock in the best possible living conditions and yet end an animals life. It just makes economic sense to raise a lamb or calf in the best possible living conditions. The ethical part of the equation is just a bonus.
Last edited by BrokenTap; 05-04-2009 at 08:50 AM..
Wow, this reminds me of the first book of the bible where the first homicide took place.
Well, Able WAS a livestock producer (possibly a corporate farmer). And it's entirely possible that Cain was really PO'd by all the greenhouse gas emissions Abel's livestock were producing...
Just like a pedophile thinks those kids were put on earth for his pleasure eh?
Its blatantly clear that you know very little about Pedophilia. Actually as a Foster Parent that has to deal with the end result of this incredibly disgusted aspect of some sub-humans, it amazes me that someone would so casually bring such a subject up just to make a silly point about meat versus veggies. You really should be ashamed of yourself in my humble opinion...
Still to educate you a bit, you should know that pedophiles do not prey upon children because they derive sexual pleasure from it. You seem to know the human body well enough, so you should know that two consenting adults provide the greatest pleasure from a sexual act. The closer a couple can get to getting what they really want, the better it is. Pedophilia is about sheer power and control, and they prey upon the meekest humans because it gives them the greatest contrast between the two extremes. Pedophiles do not feel children are on this earth for their pleasure, rather they see children as being the weakest of the weak. They thrive on the ability to control, just as any rapist does, and continue their sick endeavor again and again because the power they feel upon doing so.
You know... It's really sad when un-informed "green people" turn into zealots. They do more damage than good to their cause.
I am all FOR living as green as possible. And I do. But some of the inflammatory and ignorant rhetoric I see thrown around makes me ashamed of admitting to want to be green.
Well, Able WAS a livestock producer (possibly a corporate farmer). And it's entirely possible that Cain was really PO'd by all the greenhouse gas emissions Abel's livestock were producing...
Actually Adam and Eve did not eat animals at first nor wear their skins, eating from “every plant yielding seed” and “every tree with seed in its fruit” (Genesis 1:29). It was not until after the fall from grace that they started eating meat. After that, you find many reference to not eating unclean meat, etc.
And as for zealotry and inflammatory rhetoric, your responses certainly fall into that category plus you have yet to provide one third the evidence provided by those you seem to disagree with. Simple name calling does not make you right.
You know - fur really keeps you warm. AND, if you have a fur lined Leather coat, it is even better!
Fine hand crafted leather shoes are fantastic!
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No nerve touched here. Have to try harder than that. 
