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^So are you suggesting the colleges should not be teaching IT and other high-tech curricula? You said these fields are "hyped up", but there's a reason kids choose to study them...JOBS! Which is kind of the point of Obama's visit--to highlight the great work FTCC is doing to prepare people for these jobs. I don't disagree that NC's job market has taken some tough hits. But longing for the past isn't going to help improve things, I'm afraid.
IT (which I never alluded to and Obama didn't either) is a broad career field; NOT an industry in and of itself. All medium to large businesses need IT people to some degree.
I think it's great that Obama visited Forsyth Tech. I think it's great that both Senators were there.
Actually I was just trying to bring to light that certain specific industries are being touted by politicians and the media as the cure-all for the state's lack of jobs. It's not about nostalgia or "longing for the past"; it's about realization that 9 million people in this state and all the talk about diversifying our economy, that the more established manufacturing sectors such as textiles, furniture, and yes even cigarettes, should also be included in the discussion. They are already here, the factories are very high tech (do you know anything about automation and manufacturing technologies?), and they STILL employ thousands.
Last edited by roncorey1; 12-11-2010 at 01:08 PM..
Reason: grammar
IT (which I never alluded to and Obama didn't either) is a broad career field; NOT an industry in and of itself.
Actually I was just trying to bring to light that certain specific industries are being touted by politicians and the media as the cure-all for the state's lack of jobs. It's not about nostalgia or "longing for the past"; it's about realization that 9 million people in this state and all the talk about diversifying our economy, that the more established manufacturing sectors such as textiles, furniture, and yes even cigarettes, should also be included in the discussion. They are already here, the factories are very high tech (do you know anything about automation and manufacturing technologies?), and they STILL employ thousands.
Yes, you did allude to IT in the following quote:
IT, biotech/pharma, R&D, and other so-called "hi-tech" fields are political and media (bedfellows) driven hype that makes young people all think on the same page when they go to college nowadays.
I don't know why you think certain industries are being touted as the "cure-all"--I don't recall Obama or anyone else saying anything like that. It's a matter of diversifying our economic base. You mentioned textiles and furniture, and thanks for asking but yes, I happen to know quite a bit about the technologies of both industries because I've worked in both. Part of my job in those industries was evaluating operational effectiveness and efficiency of automated systems, so I'm quite familiar with them--familiar enough to know that 1) Asian countries have newer factories and more advanced technology in these industries than we do, and 2) they're doing it much cheaper than we can. You say these industries are "still here", but for all practical purposes furniture is no longer in NC. Most all case goods companies now import their goods from foreign countries. And we all know what happened with textiles--yes there are still a few manufacturers here but most all of them are struggling to stay in business. It would take tremendous amounts of capital to make these industries competitive with foreign technology, and we'd still get killed on labor costs. Unless we implement protective tariffs, the only practical solution is to look for alternate industries where we have more of an edge.
Well ya got me on that one...... guess I am just so used to hearing IT in the media and political talk as a "hot" career field that I threw it in there with all the others.
I think you and I probably both see the same problems but just have a different view on the root of the problem which I think is pure corporate greed mixed with government overregulation.
The technology that you say the Asian countries have in abundance is often the same technologies that US factories use (Siemens, Mitsubishi, Fanuc, Yaskawa, etc.) and I doubt that they have that advantage for any other reason than that SOME US based manufacturing operations are just trying to "save money" and "do more with less" and/or already know that the US firm is gonna fold in the next few years so there is no need to invest.
BUT, on the other hand, when I worked for Swift Denim (now SwiftGaley) in Erwin, NC back in the late 90's, the factory I worked at received alot of money for upgrades and training and then folded a year later. Same thing at Freudenberg Nonwovens in late 2007. Major capital investments, Six Sigma this, Six Sigma that, "lean manufacturing, etc....... and then a year later.....boom....layoffs and eventual closing (March, '09).
My point?
These larger corporations know how to play the game and when they seemingly "waste" money on upgrades they will just get some kinda tax credit and then move the machinery to the new offshore location and probably get a tax credit to move it. SO technological superiority and efficency has little to do with it in the long run.
Lo tech/high tech, low effeciency/high effeciency, new product/old product......doesn't matter. When they are ready to offshore there is nothing we can do unless we want to work for free.
Going back to school for two years on the government tab and getting "retrained for the jobs of tomorrow" is not the solution to our manufacturing woes. I hate to believe that all the US can manufacture for our domestic markets is chemicals and food products and all that we export anymore is military invasions of Third World countries!
Last edited by roncorey1; 12-12-2010 at 01:05 AM..
It is real simple. In Manufacturing you add value to a product to make money. For low value add products like textiles and cigarettes, you have to be very efficient which means automation (not humans) or really low wages (which is why these jobs are going away).
There are high value add jobs (Aerospace, complex machinery) that still can be done in the US, and North Carolina is doing a better job of attracting these than the rust belt or the Northeast.
Japan and Germany can do this kind of manufacturing by combining technical training and a skilled workforce with current technology that makes them efficient. The US can do it too. The low value add stuff is a lost cause unless you want to pay high prices for these products.
I am not an expert on cigarette manufacturing, and I probably shouldn't have thrown it into my commment. So, you are saying that humans, not automation, are responsible for adding a lot of value in the manufacturing portion of cigarette production? If true, strike this from my statement.
Cigarettes cost almost nothing to make (input, salaries, production), and sell for drastically inflated prices even before taxes are considered. For an "agricultural" product, they are a high value-added product.
Again, I am not an expert on cigarettes and shouldn't have used them in my post, but that may explain why they are still made in the US. Does the high value add lead to jobs which was the real point of my post? or are you just pointing that I shouldn't have called cigarettes a low value add product?
No, quite the opposite. Cigarette production requires fewer and fewer jobs each year, due to decreasing demand in the US and technological innovation. This a big factor in making them a high value-added product.
^ Typically the term "high value added" refers to inputs and/or processes that make a product more valuable, not to products that are simply overpriced. So cigarettes are low-value added, because essentially all the manufacturers do is roll the cigarette for you. This is something anyone could easily learn to do for themselves, so the manufacturer isn't really adding a lot of value to the raw product (tobacco).
A simple example of "high value added" would be pottery. A lump of clay isn't worth much to anyone in its natural state, but a skilled craftsman can create a beautiful and valuable object from it. The artist creates value from an essentially worthless input = "high value added".
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