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I have had a lengthy 35+ year career in commercial design, construction and development. It is rare if a company acquires an existing large facility and doesn’t spend a considerable amount of money upfitting (if it’s a shell building) or renovating an existing completed building. This can run many millions of dollars in some cases, depending on the situation, and of course, the type of business. On the other hand, life sciences companies are hungry for wet lab, preconstructed space which in most cases are move-in ready.
If Boom doesn’t work out, and another aerospace company is lured to PTI, it will involve, at a minimum, another $ 100 million in incentives. This will offset costs to renovate buildings to conform to their own specifications, among other reasons, including outright greed. When Dell Computer bailed out of the Winston-Salem facility, the state was able to “claw back” only a small portion of what was already paid out.
I think that the $ 106 million offered in this case was extremely high, given that they are a start-up with absolutely no track record of production or sales, and despite being in business for eight years, still haven’t managed to build a working prototype plane that can be tested. The site / road revisions would have more than enough, as that would need to be done at some point anyway. The amount of aerospace companies that could look at PTI as a possible location is incredibly small, and most of them would care more about the workforce quality, cost of labor and the dollar amount of incentives offered.
Boom Technology, Inc. (trade name Boom Supersonic) is an American company designing a Mach 1.7 (1,000 kn; 1,800 km/h), 55-passenger supersonic airliner.
Today, BOOM is an aircraft design company, not an aircraft manufacturer. Living large on the VC funding,
I have had a lengthy 35+ year career in commercial design, construction and development. It is rare if a company acquires an existing large facility and doesn’t spend a considerable amount of money upfitting (if it’s a shell building) or renovating an existing completed building. This can run many millions of dollars in some cases, depending on the situation, and of course, the type of business. On the other hand, life sciences companies are hungry for wet lab, preconstructed space which in most cases are move-in ready.
If Boom doesn’t work out, and another aerospace company is lured to PTI, it will involve, at a minimum, another $ 100 million in incentives. This will offset costs to renovate buildings to conform to their own specifications, among other reasons, including outright greed. When Dell Computer bailed out of the Winston-Salem facility, the state was able to “claw back” only a small portion of what was already paid out.
I think that the $ 106 million offered in this case was extremely high, given that they are a start-up with absolutely no track record of production or sales, and despite being in business for eight years, still haven’t managed to build a working prototype plane that can be tested. The site / road revisions would have more than enough, as that would need to be done at some point anyway. The amount of aerospace companies that could look at PTI as a possible location is incredibly small, and most of them would care more about the workforce quality, cost of labor and the dollar amount of incentives offered.
Boom Technology, Inc. (trade name Boom Supersonic) is an American company designing a Mach 1.7 (1,000 kn; 1,800 km/h), 55-passenger supersonic airliner.
Today, BOOM is an aircraft design company, not an aircraft manufacturer. Living large on the VC funding,
Hey, NC has got to start somewhere, if state leaders seriously want to get in the game. The state clearly is aiming to get more aerospace action, even if it comes at a huge premium.
Hey, NC has got to start somewhere, if state leaders seriously want to get in the game. The state clearly is aiming to get more aerospace action, even if it comes at a huge premium.
Great point. The state did such a "great" job with the North Carolina Global TransPark, why not continue with that success. You would think after all these years people would wise up. Toyota was smart. BOOM is not.
Great point. The state did such a "great" job with the North Carolina Global TransPark, why not continue with that success. You would think after all these years people would wise up. Toyota was smart. BOOM is not.
I never said that I believe that becoming more competitive in the aerospace industry was smart. All that I’m concluding is that the state seems to want to become a serious player.
I also feel that the state and economic developers are under pressure to bring more decent paying jobs to the Triad and based on current industries and workforce in that region, this opportunity is a fairly good fit.
Personally I’m a bit bearish on aerospace for reasons that I’ve stated previously.
Last edited by uncchgrad; 01-25-2022 at 06:25 AM..
I'm not sure where the negatively to Boom is coming from. There is absolutely NO evidence at all that the company will go bust.
Correct. There is no evidence today that the company will go bust. But there is no evidence that they will succeed either.
Per a recent aviation article, regarding BOOM:
“Boom has some strong competition. Subsonic planes are getting faster and more efficient. It’s also possible to have a more productive flight on a traditional plane now that you can use the WiFi to get some work done or sleep in a lie-flat seat in first class.
There are also other companies working on developing supersonic planes, like Spike Aerospace and Aerion Supersonic, although Aerion recently , after 19 years of attempting something similar to BOOM.
But I think Boom’s real competition will come from outside the traditional airline industry. Several companies are working on planes capable of vertical takeoff and landing, which could change how we travel, even if everything is still subsonic. A considerable amount of any trip is spent just getting to and from the airport, and these new VTOL aircraft will make it much easier to get to smaller airports.
Then there’s SpaceX’s point-to-point. Elon Musk thinks he can get passengers from New York to Tokyo in just 30 minutes using a rocket. This is clearly a long shot, but if it works, it would be substantially faster than flying in a supersonic plane.”
Per a recent NYT article, regarding BOOM:
“A passenger today has much less incentive to pay more to travel at supersonic speeds. It was this dynamic that helped kill Aerion, the world’s most advanced supersonic private jet startup, earlier this year.
These two problems, along with others (the sonic-boom problem has yet to be solved, and supersonic flying is bound to be a lightning rod for environmentalists’ anger), have produced a strange industry landscape. The two companies that build 95% of the world’s jetliners— Airbus and Boeing —have zero interest in a creating a supersonic jetliner, despite having all the necessary financial and engineering resources (both companies have experience building supersonic combat aircraft). The other jet players—Russia’s UAC, China’s Comac, and Brazil’s Embraer—have no interest either. Most supersonic startups have expressed interest in a supersonic business jet, a very different idea.
That leaves Boom Technology, with its Overture concept aircraft. It has, by its own account, raised $270 million in seed and venture capital. This is just a small part of the overall development bill. Given the problems supersonic travel faces, raising the remaining money needed to bring a jet to market is, I am convinced, far out of reach.”
Correct. There is no evidence today that the company will go bust. But there is no evidence that they will succeed either.
Per a recent aviation article, regarding BOOM:
“Boom has some strong competition. Subsonic planes are getting faster and more efficient. It’s also possible to have a more productive flight on a traditional plane now that you can use the WiFi to get some work done or sleep in a lie-flat seat in first class.
There are also other companies working on developing supersonic planes, like Spike Aerospace and Aerion Supersonic, although Aerion recently , after 19 years of attempting something similar to BOOM.
But I think Boom’s real competition will come from outside the traditional airline industry. Several companies are working on planes capable of vertical takeoff and landing, which could change how we travel, even if everything is still subsonic. A considerable amount of any trip is spent just getting to and from the airport, and these new VTOL aircraft will make it much easier to get to smaller airports.
Then there’s SpaceX’s point-to-point. Elon Musk thinks he can get passengers from New York to Tokyo in just 30 minutes using a rocket. This is clearly a long shot, but if it works, it would be substantially faster than flying in a supersonic plane.”
Per a recent NYT article, regarding BOOM:
“A passenger today has much less incentive to pay more to travel at supersonic speeds. It was this dynamic that helped kill Aerion, the world’s most advanced supersonic private jet startup, earlier this year.
These two problems, along with others (the sonic-boom problem has yet to be solved, and supersonic flying is bound to be a lightning rod for environmentalists’ anger), have produced a strange industry landscape. The two companies that build 95% of the world’s jetliners— Airbus and Boeing —have zero interest in a creating a supersonic jetliner, despite having all the necessary financial and engineering resources (both companies have experience building supersonic combat aircraft). The other jet players—Russia’s UAC, China’s Comac, and Brazil’s Embraer—have no interest either. Most supersonic startups have expressed interest in a supersonic business jet, a very different idea.
That leaves Boom Technology, with its Overture concept aircraft. It has, by its own account, raised $270 million in seed and venture capital. This is just a small part of the overall development bill. Given the problems supersonic travel faces, raising the remaining money needed to bring a jet to market is, I am convinced, far out of reach.”
This is actually kind of silly. There's usually never any evidence that a startup will indeed go bust. Otherwise they would never get the amounts of funding needed to launch the venture. On the other hand, there had better be substantial evidence that they will succeed, or else a bunch of fools are investing money unwisely.
These arguments being made by NC Observer and others are not about there being any evidence for success or failure. These arguments are simply based on the reality of risky startups (which this is, regardless of how you spin it) and the fact that the state has authorized a huge incentive package for a company with a high risk profile. It's just that simple.
Per an CNBC article dated 05/2/21, regarding the shutdown of Aerion Supersonic last year. Aerion was considered the company the most likely to succeed in the supersonic airplane space, after 19 years of effort:
Aerion Supersonic, the Nevada-based company that planned to build business jets capable of silently flying nearly twice as fast as commercial aircraft, is shutting down, the company confirmed to CNBC on Friday.
“In the current financial environment, it has proven hugely challenging to close on the scheduled and necessary large new capital requirements” to begin production of its AS2 supersonic jet, the company said in a statement. Aerion Corporation is now taking the appropriate steps in consideration of this ongoing financial environment,” the company said.
Aerion aimed to fly its first AS2 jet by 2024, with the goal of beginning commercial services by 2026. The company developed a patented technology it calls “boomless cruise,” which it said would allow AS2 to fly without creating a sonic boom – an issue that plagued the supersonic Concorde jets of the past. The AS2 was priced at $120 million per jet. Aerion CEO Tom Vice said at a UBS conference in January 2020 that he expected it would cost the company about $4 billion to develop AS2, with $1 billion having been spent at the time to develop an engine. The company had accrued multiple partnerships along the way – including with Boeing, General Electric, and Berkshire Hathaway-owned NetJets – and boasted an $11.2 billion sales backlog for its AS2 jets. Earlier this year Aerion, in press conference with Florida governor Ron DeSantis, unveiled it would build a $375 million manufacturing facility at the Orlando Melbourne International Airport.”
They ran out of investor patience, money and time. And the $ 375 million manufacturing facility announced in 2021 was never built. And many people who follow this sort of thing are skeptical.
I'd correct that to indicate that it's official that Greensboro has been chosen as the/a manufacturing site of choice should they get their operations literally and figuratively off the ground.
Based on what I read, the chances of this resulting in anything are VERY low.
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