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Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point The Triad Area
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:36 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,788 times
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It was a big mistake to open this plant from the beginning. Winston-Salem is not a technological haven in any regard, nor is it ideally located for shipment to where the largest percentage of retail computers on the east coast are sold (the Northeast.)

North Carolina jumped through some major hoops back in October of '04...the State General Assembly held a special meeting almost immediately after Dell announced that they were looking to put an assembly plant together on the east coast. The tax incentives offered by the state at the time the plant was announced in November of '04 were staggering; nearly $250 million including the state covering all costs of introducing industry training courses at nearby colleges, and the company itself getting an inventive of 75% of all income tax collected through the creation of new jobs. Add to this the very low cost of living/expected wage rate and it was a match made in heaven...until people stopped buying desktop computers.

With most consumers either buying parts and upgrading their desktop or simply buying a laptop, this plant was doomed shortly after it got up and running. I'm sure the employees saw this coming, though the unfortunate part of all of this is how bad the job market is in the Triad area. I have not checked recently, but I'd guess unemployment in the Forsyth county area is already in between 9-10%. Another 900 people losing their job around here is really going to hurt. In this case, the jobs should never have come to the area in the first place but there's no turning back time at this point.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
499 posts, read 1,461,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupHalfEmpty View Post
Winston-Salem is not a technological haven in any regard, nor is it ideally located for shipment to where the largest percentage of retail computers on the east coast are sold (the Northeast.)
I'm sure that this is NOT the reason that the factory is closing.....the cities in China and India where all the other desktops (or laptops) are built aren't "technological havens" either (whatever that means).

And I'm sure that Dell had logistics in mind when they built the plant here and the location is actually pretty good when comapred with say, Hong Kong?

In the end it will all end up where it was always destined....Asia.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:08 AM
 
2,669 posts, read 6,665,209 times
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^ Agreed. You don't have to be a "technological haven" to put PC's together. It's a factory line like many others. And with two (soon to be 3) interstates and a major airport nearby, it's as ideally located as most other places as far as shipping logistics

And I could argue your point about Winston-Salem. You might be surprised by the amount of technology that's here, especially in the medical, biotech, and banking arenas.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: central North Carolina
62 posts, read 161,255 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupHalfEmpty View Post
It was a big mistake to open this plant from the beginning. Winston-Salem is not a technological haven in any regard, nor is it ideally located for shipment to where the largest percentage of retail computers on the east coast are sold (the Northeast.)

North Carolina jumped through some major hoops back in October of '04...the State General Assembly held a special meeting almost immediately after Dell announced that they were looking to put an assembly plant together on the east coast. The tax incentives offered by the state at the time the plant was announced in November of '04 were staggering; nearly $250 million including the state covering all costs of introducing industry training courses at nearby colleges, and the company itself getting an inventive of 75% of all income tax collected through the creation of new jobs. Add to this the very low cost of living/expected wage rate and it was a match made in heaven...until people stopped buying desktop computers.

With most consumers either buying parts and upgrading their desktop or simply buying a laptop, this plant was doomed shortly after it got up and running. I'm sure the employees saw this coming, though the unfortunate part of all of this is how bad the job market is in the Triad area. I have not checked recently, but I'd guess unemployment in the Forsyth county area is already in between 9-10%. Another 900 people losing their job around here is really going to hurt. In this case, the jobs should never have come to the area in the first place but there's no turning back time at this point.
I agree with some of what you say. Our state needs to quit giving so much money/incentives to these companies to locate here. We are giving more in incentives than we are getting in jobs; the big companies benefit much more from our incentives/money/tax breaks than we do. But at least we had laws and rules set in place before giving Dell the 'green light'. NC is demanding all money back that we gave Dell as they did not keep their end of the deal. So that is good for us Sucks about the lost jobs though. If we are to give incentives to lure jobs, we should give them to LOCAL and STATE based companies; NOT to some company in Texas out for their own profit who could give a rats ass about some town in a different state...

Roncorey1 and arbyunc are right also. W-S and the Triad may be more blue-collar, but there is still a good tech and university/college presence here. Besides, we have a long tradition of manufacturing/assembly work and logistics, so it makes sense to have 'hubs' here. Winston and Greensboro are well known for logistics because of their central location. The Triad is halfway between the Triangle and Charlotte metros; halfway between DC and Atlanta, and halfway between New York and Florida. There is a LOT of population and cities between New York and Florida and we are the halfway mark
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Raleigh,NC
351 posts, read 1,015,657 times
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A lot of the money can't be paid back, it's already been spent.

Millions spent luring Dell to N.C. can't be recouped :: WRAL.com (http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/6173623/# - broken link)
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Old 10-10-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,883 posts, read 71,639,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinadreamin' View Post
A lot of the money can't be paid back, it's already been spent.

Millions spent luring Dell to N.C. can't be recouped :: WRAL.com (http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/6173623/# - broken link)
Exactly. Kiss that $$$ good-bye.

But even worse is the loss of 900 jobs. Our state is already suffering from high unemployment - and our compensation fund is in the red. It is a really worrisome situation. What is going to happen to all these folks - literally hundreds of thousands of people! - who are out of work in this state?
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Old 10-10-2009, 09:54 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCnut View Post
If we are to give incentives to lure jobs, we should give them to LOCAL and STATE based companies; NOT to some company in Texas out for their own profit who could give a rats ass about some town in a different state...
^ This, in a nutshell.

Dell never cared about the workers or the community, it was always all about the bottom line. People stopped buying overpriced desktop computers filled with unnecessary software and the bottom fell out; the plant, with a significant amount of state and city tax dollars invested in it may sit abandoned for a long time.

As far as unemployment in NC goes, things are a lot worse than people here are willing to believe. The government lists NC's unemp. rate at 9.1%, good for 6th highest in the nation (not including DC,) while North Carolina unemployment rates, county-by-county :: WRAL.com lists us as high as 10.7%. I'm sure many of you posting here personally know people who are struggling: A friend of mine lost his HR job at a headhunting firm when the place (on Peters Creek in Winston) closed over the summer. Unfortunately for him, he hasn't been able to find anything at all locally and may be forced to leave the area as he's got student loans to worry about.

Working in the Wachovia building, we have practically been on lockdown since the Wells Fargo merger over a year ago. People are walking on eggshells because things are still very much up in the air as far as internal reorganization is concerned. I don't think we've had more than 5 job listings up at any given time over the past 6 months but we receive anywhere between 75-100 resume's a DAY for each posted position. Most who apply are not even close to qualified and their submissions come with no cover letter and half of the preliminary information not filled out. I imagine most of these people are sending out as many resumes to as many places as they can, praying that someone calls or e-mails them back.

Things are not good right now, I hope that the 900+ who are out of work at the beginning of next year are able to get back on their feet quickly.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
74 posts, read 191,383 times
Reputation: 41
The Triad metro is roughly within 500 miles of half the population of the United States, so how is the location in proximity to retail stores grounds for arguing that the plant shouldn't have been built to begin with, unless you're going to suggest that most of that population is in the Northeast.

Check this out for unemployment percentages by state and county. Guilford is worse off than Forsyth.

Google - public data
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Raleigh,NC
351 posts, read 1,015,657 times
Reputation: 179
More info about incentives debate.

Dell closure again heats up incentives debate :: WRAL.com (http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/6180330/ - broken link)
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Old 10-11-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Winston-Salem
273 posts, read 895,572 times
Reputation: 193
I think this actually brings up a more important debate than should we provide tax incentives or not. The problem is with our current tax structure. If we (as in the entire country) were to move away from the income/corporate tax system which taxes you on what you produce instead of what you spend, we could do a lot for this country. A Fairtax scenario makes a lot of sense the more you look at it. States that have the highest income taxes are seeing massive reductions in population due to the ever increasing taxes. And as this country raises taxes on individuals and corporations, we see more corporate headquarters being moved to other countries also.
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