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I wasn't trying to offend, and wasn't talking about your political beliefs. It wasn't about you, but about this area. I used that to point out that you will not see taxes the likes of NJ, because conservatives generally don't want to pay more taxes. I myself am more middle ground and like to leave things open for thinking as they come along. I apologize if I offended you. Oh, and that term doesn't offend me; but just say what you're thinking. I welcome you to the area.
I am on the same page as you as far as growth and taxes. I think there is positive growth in the Greenville area but I don't think it's exploding. I don't think taxes will ever be close to Jersey either. Just my opinion
That's subjective really. Some people like smaller, some like larger.
^^^lol, OK, I'll get my mind out of the gutter That being said, IMHO, I think Greenville is a good size and as mentioned has pretty much what you need without the big city hassles. It has a desirable downtown with restaurants, bars, shops, park, baseball field, etc. It does have traffic but nothing like a bigger city. I do think infrastructure in the area needs improvement.
It's kinda like the "paradise effect", where someone perceives a certain place as their paradise or Shangri-La, and once they move there, they don't want anymore people to move there!
^^^lol, OK, I'll get my mind out of the gutter That being said, IMHO, I think Greenville is a good size and as mentioned has pretty much what you need without the big city hassles. It has a desirable downtown with restaurants, bars, shops, park, baseball field, etc. It does have traffic but nothing like a bigger city. I do think infrastructure in the area needs improvement.
Yep. It just depends on what you want. I know people who think Greenville is too big, some who think it's too small; and of course just right. I think it's a place that I can grow with as it grows.
Now as for South Carolina, this might seem incendiary (it surely isn't meant to be), but I think the State, at it's core, is rural/semi rural in nature. South Carolina isn't a State that's densely populated, and I think that the policies/planning reflect that.
It's not incendiary; it's true. Two of the best examples of the rural-dominated mindset in state politics are the existence of Public Service Districts and the stringent annexation laws. Although technically the state is now majority urban/suburban than rural, old mindsets die hard--especially considering SC's history. Effective planning and managing of growth is basically nonexistent in SC and sprawl isn't a bad word here; if anything, in areas like the Upstate in particular, it's practically encouraged.
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In ten years, Charlotte did a 180. While that's not likely to happen in Greenville, we ought not repeat Charlotte's mistakes which come as a result of rapid growth.
Most of the pro-growth responses I've seen here have great points, and I totally understand their wishes.
Growth and development in any metropolitan area can be a strong plus.
However, I'm just warning against growth for growth's sake, without a serious plan and proper zoning.
For example, when I was growing up in New Jersey say 30 years ago, we all knew the towns where major shopping could be found.
Paramus, Nanuet NY, Hackensack had great infrastructure, with many highway interchanges and alternate routes.
We also knew which communities were considered "commuter" towns, with easy access to New York City, or the major highways.
We also knew which commuities were more family oriented, with parks, recreation, arts, and sports oriented.
Over the years, the developers got hold of the city planner's ears and started buying up all the green space for strip malls, office buildings, apartments, condos, tract housing, you name it.
Zoning regulations were softened, and developers were essentially given free reign to build whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted.
Many people were initially thrilled that their little towns were going to have all these new places to shop, and many new neighbors.
What was originally envisioned as a way to reduce traffic due to bringing malls and office buildings closer, actually created traffic nightmares throughout north Jersey.
Very little regard was given to the infrastructure and yes, "personality" of these communities that suddenly had a Walmart/Costco/mall/office building placed where a family park once was.
Did New Jersey need growth and development? Yes, absolutely.
Did New Jersey plan it properly, and give consideration not only to the individual communities, but also the area as a whole? Most definitely not.
So I'm not looking to start a "growth" vs. "no growth" argument. That's not my underlying point.
I think you all get my point by now FWIW
I just am saying that as lifelong New Jersey person, who happens to LOVE the GSP area, please don't do what we did up here.
Do it right.
It's not incendiary; it's true. Two of the best examples of the rural-dominated mindset in state politics are the existence of Public Service Districts and the stringent annexation laws. Although technically the state is now majority urban/suburban than rural, old mindsets die hard--especially considering SC's history. Effective planning and managing of growth is basically nonexistent in SC and sprawl isn't a bad word here; if anything, in areas like the Upstate in particular, it's practically encouraged.
You've given me some things to google
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Originally Posted by DSMRE
That's subjective really. Some people like smaller, some like larger.
You're right.
There are times when I will hold my tongue, because I don't want to say something that might be misinterpreted as being impolite. Hopefully, this will not be one of those times .
The Greenville area is a lovely area, with many virtues. I can see why most anyone would want to make the Greenville area their home.
Yet, to get to the heart of the matter: did I move to the South from the NYC metro area because NYC is lacking in a diversity of dining options, thus in moving to the South did I gain dining options that NYC doesn't offer? How about museums? Mass transit? Broadway? Opera?
None of these things were motivating factors behind my move to the South.
What about others transplants who relocated to the South?
No...like most people, I moved out of the NYC area to escape high taxes, gridlock congestion, a harried pace, and nasty people. I gave up a few things along the way, although I gained a lot more than what I gave up.
Therefore, when people express a desire for an abundance of investment and growth, I wonder if they give consideration to the loss of virtues that growth brings?
I've seen this pattern play out before: hundreds of thousands of Brooklynites poured into Staten Island, to escape congestion, traffic, high prices, and nasty people. And when Staten Island got overpopulated, they abandoned Staten Island to go to Jersey, a land of lower taxes, fresh air, and friendly people. Now that Jersey is thought to be overtaxed and congested, people are abandoning Jersey for the Carolina's.
Tomato, tomahto . I realize that everyone has different preferences, and that's perfectly okay , but what confuses me are the folks who don't see the necessary tradeoffs that growth brings.
Amusing to watch this discussion. All of the "THEY shoulda woulda coulda" assumes things based on how they are now versus how they were in the past. In my life time, Greenville was a small failing town where Main St. and other downtown streets nearly became a ghost town. Suffering the back to back losses of Donaldson AFB and the demise of the almighty textile industry came very close to devastating the area. What are now wide main traffic arteries, like Wade Hampton blvd, Pleasantburg Dr., East North St, Pelham Rd., Haywood Rd, Woodruff rd, Hwy's 14, 25 276 123.... I can go on and on, were all 2 lane rural roads that had very little business and fewer amenities populating them. Forget about the interstates... they didn't exist. 29 was THE route between Atlanta, Charlotte and points north. 276 went to Asheville and Columbia and points north and south. Roads like Buncombe, Rutherford, Augusta Pendleton were named because they were the access roads, to those places.
When these began to grow, none were particularly predictable, at least not until they were well under way. The ever infamous "THEY" didn't exactly have access to any available money for green medians or green spaces. SC was a near 50th spot poor state, since reconstruction. The hard hits that were absorbed in the 60's and 70's did nothing to improve the lack of funds. Had THEY had the funding, it would have seemed pretty frivolous to have a wide green median where nothing but peach trees could be seen for miles. Context of time is required to understand the past growth of this area. Even the current explosion of growth has taken the locals by surprise. We were still the butt of cruel southerner jokes and savage stereotypes, as little as 5-10 years ago.
Is Greenville growing too fast? Probably faster than is healthy for the preservation local culture, but the secret is out now and putting tooth paste back in the tube isn't going to happen. As a local, I see the cultural dilution happening and somewhat mourn for simpler times I've know here. That being said, I also understand that some growth has to occur. I'm old enough now that I'll probably be gone before too much irreparable damage can be inflicted, but I do wish my grandchildren had had a chance to know the Greenville that I've known. You miss your NYC bagels, but I miss far more that is lost to time and progress. You can order those bagels on line.....
Amusing to watch this discussion. All of the "THEY shoulda woulda coulda" assumes things based on how they are now versus how they were in the past. In my life time, Greenville was a small failing town where Main St. and other downtown streets nearly became a ghost town. Suffering the back to back losses of Donaldson AFB and the demise of the almighty textile industry came very close to devastating the area. What are now wide main traffic arteries, like Wade Hampton blvd, Pleasantburg Dr., East North St, Pelham Rd., Haywood Rd, Woodruff rd, Hwy's 14, 25 276 123.... I can go on and on, were all 2 lane rural roads that had very little business and fewer amenities populating them. Forget about the interstates... they didn't exist. 29 was THE route between Atlanta, Charlotte and points north. 276 went to Asheville and Columbia and points north and south. Roads like Buncombe, Rutherford, Augusta Pendleton were named because they were the access roads, to those places.
When these began to grow, none were particularly predictable, at least not until they were well under way. The ever infamous "THEY" didn't exactly have access to any available money for green medians or green spaces. SC was a near 50th spot poor state, since reconstruction. The hard hits that were absorbed in the 60's and 70's did nothing to improve the lack of funds. Had THEY had the funding, it would have seemed pretty frivolous to have a wide green median where nothing but peach trees could be seen for miles. Context of time is required to understand the past growth of this area. Even the current explosion of growth has taken the locals by surprise. We were still the butt of cruel southerner jokes and savage stereotypes, as little as 5-10 years ago.
Is Greenville growing too fast? Probably faster than is healthy for the preservation local culture, but the secret is out now and putting tooth paste back in the tube isn't going to happen. As a local, I see the cultural dilution happening and somewhat mourn for simpler times I've know here. That being said, I also understand that some growth has to occur. I'm old enough now that I'll probably be gone before too much irreparable damage can be inflicted, but I do wish my grandchildren had had a chance to know the Greenville that I've known. You miss your NYC bagels, but I miss far more that is lost to time and progress. You can order those bagels on line.....
Interesting post.
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That being said, IMHO, I think Greenville is a good size and as mentioned has pretty much what you need without the big city hassles. It has a desirable downtown with restaurants, bars, shops, park, baseball field, etc. It does have traffic but nothing like a bigger city. I do think infrastructure in the area needs improvement.
