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Old 01-15-2024, 02:59 PM
Status: "dreaming of Glacier National Park" (set 15 days ago)
 
731 posts, read 347,229 times
Reputation: 238

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The bulk of the traffic congestion in the Greenville metro is within the city limits which includes the busiest section of Woodruff Road around the movie theatre.

The majority of nice neighborhoods in Greenville County are around other nice neighorhoods.

If you were to live in or near downtown, you would be closer to the highest density of poverty in the western part of the state.

Last edited by LakeMan45; 01-15-2024 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 01-15-2024, 03:27 PM
Status: "dreaming of Glacier National Park" (set 15 days ago)
 
731 posts, read 347,229 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
I remember that gsp101 used to post here. I do remember that he was critical. I can understand why he was critical. But my complaints ( maybe his were also) not so much anti Greenville but instead being critical of the constant homerism and bashing other cities by a few. But I can understand why you and others do it. Greenville does not get the respect that you think that it deserves. So, you want to set the other posters straight that you think are wrong. I can understand this. But I think Greenville is up and coming. It is getting more respect. It is growing pretty rapidly for a metro of 1.5 million. It has a strong industrial base. The downtown brings noteriety to the city. And Greenville’s location in the foothills is great for outdoorsman. I think that your and others comments would go further in a positive way if you were to say positive things occassionallly regarding Asheville or Columbia when someone brings them up. And not constantly speak of how Greenville is so much bigger and better.

But if you really read my comments, I was not bashing Greenville. I made several positive comments . Most of comments were pointing out that although Charlotte and Greenville are both southern cities, they have a lot of differences. When pointing out those differences, I did not state which city is better. I simply pointed out the differences.

Regarding my comments about downtown Greenville, my comments came only after someone stated that nc cities do not pay attention to their downtowns. Nothing could be further from the truth. Had that comment not been made, I would not have expressed my opinion on Greenville’s downtown.

So, as I said, it is difficult to post positive comments regarding Greenville on this site because they are often taken out of context. Then a backhanded comment is made ridiculing another city. This is what happened here. I came on this site to praise Greenville which I did. Then came the backhanded comment.,
It is fairly common to see people compare Greenville unfavorably to NC cities especially Asheville, Charlotte and Raleigh. Those people generally gush over downtown Greenville but are critical of the suburbs and other things like the schools and roads. I don't see them mention the NC downtowns when comparing those cities to Greenville. It gives me the impression they like Greenville's downtown better. I've never heard any hype for those NC downtowns which surprises me given the hype for the cities in general. I don't have a strong opinion about those downtowns.

I feel like the natural law of Greenville is the more intensely a person likes downtown, the more likely they willl not like living here overall. It is a unique counterintuitive situation. I like the downtown but I would still like living in this area if it is less appealing. For me, describing downtown Greenville as Disneyland and award winning sounds like homerism compared to how I talk about it. My approach is, you know what, Greenville has a waterfall in its business district, I think that's cool, and I like the trees on Main, the wide sidewalks, outdoor, rooftop/ open air restaurant sitting, quaint fountains with relaxing sound of rushing water, musicians playing Eric Clapton and Stevie Wonder, festivals, etc. I like being able to stroll from downtown through a series of parks to the zoo after enjoying getting an ice cream at Spill the Beans next to the falls. Soon I will enjoy walking from the falls to the observation tower. Here are some renderings of the tower. https://gvltoday.6amcity.com/unity-p...n-tower-update

Last edited by LakeMan45; 01-15-2024 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 01-15-2024, 06:36 PM
 
Location: charlotte
615 posts, read 537,928 times
Reputation: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
And you're saying that this isn't okay in Greenville's case or something?

Not sure what you mean those particular shops were "chosen" to serve downtown tourists. It's simply a matter of supply and demand. And those shops may be "overrepresented" but they don't constitute the majority of restaurants and retail downtown, many of which have largely local clienteles.

I also have yet to see any real life negative feedback Greenville gets for having such shops downtown. That's a new one to me.



So instead of setting itself apart and developing some sense of uniqueness, it should've instead scrapped all of that in favor of being just like everybody else? I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make here (or how it pertains to the OP for that matter).



In the South, it's the opposite. The great downtowns are typically in small and midsized cities whereas the big city downtowns (Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, etc) tend to be lacking. New Orleans is arguably at the top of the heap in the South as far as downtowns go, and Charleston and Savannah are typically mentioned in the very next breath. After that, it's something of a toss-up with the likes of Nashville, Chattanooga, Greenville, Asheville, Louisville, Richmond, Alexandria, St. Petersburg, Miami Beach, Austin, San Antonio, etc. in the mix.

Who still buys actual magazines in 2024? Lol...people just browse such lists online for the rankings and keep it moving. The actual awards downtown Greenville has won, as opposed to simply landing in the top 10 of a random "best of" list on a website, tend to carry the most clout in urban planning/civic circles, such as the Great American Main Street Award (which Greenville won in 2003), the American Planning Association's Great Places in America Award (2009), the ULI Urban Open Space Awards (2010 finalist) and the Rudy Bruner Award for Urban Excellence (2015). And none of them have magazines to peddle lol.
Sure it is a matter of supply and demand- it always is. But these types of shops were chosen for a reason and that is to cater to the weekend tourist. Some cities in the south could emulate what Greenville has done. But most have chosen not to, and most cities are copy cat cities. Whatever works in a city is sometimes emulated by some other city. But this has not been emulated. Greenville is a different city than savannah and st Augustine. It has some tourist but mostly weekend tourist whereas Savannah and st Augustine are more tourist centers. A Disneyland downtown there seems more in tune. Greenville is an industrial and logistics center. A Disneyland downtown that is an I dutrial and logistics center does not seem right. But Greenville has done what they could do. But the city admits that this type of downtown is not enough. A consultant hired by the city told the city that they need a large and major employer and or a major university downtown. So, while the downtown is cute and draws tourists the city knows it is not enough in its current state. It is not totally functioning as the downtown that the city needs it to be. I guess this was my point. It has won awards, but it is not enough and the city knows it and is trying to rectify the problem.

While most good downtowns are in smaller cities in the south, let’s admit there are not too many big cities in the soiuth. And the southern cities all grew mostly after the auto became prevalent creating sprawl. But I was not comparing southern downtowns. I simply stated that the best and most functional diwntowns are in big cities- Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago, San Fran, Seattle. I don’t think anyone would argue with this. But the people in these cities are not reading the articles on accolades regarding cities. As I said, they don’t need reinforcement that their city’s downtown iis good. The magazines hope to draw readers whether on line or in actual magazines by luring readers interested in reading about an accolade regarding their city. Most of these accolades but not all, are designed to draw readers to their magazine and the data is sometimes flawed.

But as I have said here, I think Greenville should be proud of their downtown and it has won awards. But the city knows that it needs to strive for more. And I only criticized after someone had disparaging comments. Otherwise I would have never brought it up. But this is how I feel about downtown Greenville. But I am not the only person that thinks this. I have seen comments on this before when I did not comment. Therefore, I think there is something to it. I have seen other comments that agree with me. But we all have opinions I suppose and we don’t always agree. But a city gets better by recognizing it could improve even if their downtown is award winning.
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Old 01-15-2024, 06:50 PM
 
Location: charlotte
615 posts, read 537,928 times
Reputation: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Let's keep it a buck here: the only poster you're butting heads with regularly is LakeMan45. But the problem is that you oftentimes (not always but often) choose to make general posts insinuating that your spats with him are reflective of the posters in this forum in general instead of replying to LakeMan45's posts directly to challenge the points of disagreement you have with him specifically. So of course others who aren't at all guilty of what you charge the posters here with collectively, like DSMRE, will push back against your accusations and rightfully so.

Honestly it just looks like you have an axe to grind against Greenville for reasons unknown, and then you use the ongoing friction you're having with LakeMan45 to mischaracterize the posters here in general and then justify taking cheap shots at Greenville as a place. I don't understand why defending Charlotte or correcting misinformation about it requires you to also take jabs at Greenville all the while acting as though you're impartial when you're clearly not. We all have our biases of whatever sort and it's perfectly fine to own them instead of pretending as though your recurring "Disneyland downtown" slight constitutes an objective assessment.
You must have me confused with some one else. This is the first confrontation that I have had with lake man. And you think that I have an axe to grind against Greenville because of this post. What about the posts where I have complimented Greenville? Maybe I was wrong about DSMRE. I will have to check. But I have read numerous forums regarding spats between those in the Columbia and Greenville- in fact too many to recall. And I would have sworn that DSRME was involved in some of those.

This is really the only time that I have spoken out in Greenville forum negatively. Although I have thought for sometime that a few poster here are homers. But maybe I have taken it all out of context.

But forget about me and read the first few pages of this forum. It appeared without a doubt that lake was argumentative at the very least. But maybe I am the crazy one.
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Old 01-15-2024, 06:54 PM
 
Location: charlotte
615 posts, read 537,928 times
Reputation: 502
But mutiny I do consider you to have insightful posts . I do respect your comments. Although I do think that you have me confused a bit with someone else, your comments will cause me to reevaluate all of my posts.
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Old 01-15-2024, 07:52 PM
Status: "dreaming of Glacier National Park" (set 15 days ago)
 
731 posts, read 347,229 times
Reputation: 238
It is interesting a person in Charlotte is posting on a Greenville topic to discuss things like tourism in Savannah and "that the best and most functional diwntowns are in big cities- Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago, San Fran, Seattle"

I would have never thought people in big cities would be thinking about Greenville this much. The city doesn't need to do anything else to the downtown if it already has your attention to this level. It is really gonna get crazy when the observation tower goes up.

Downtown Greenville is more functional than those downtowns from a law and order standpoint and other factors. One example is Greenville didn't have bad riots like many cities did a few years ago.

Last edited by LakeMan45; 01-15-2024 at 08:50 PM..
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Old 01-15-2024, 09:18 PM
 
5,491 posts, read 8,323,155 times
Reputation: 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
You must have me confused with some one else. This is the first confrontation that I have had with lake man. And you think that I have an axe to grind against Greenville because of this post. What about the posts where I have complimented Greenville? Maybe I was wrong about DSMRE. I will have to check. But I have read numerous forums regarding spats between those in the Columbia and Greenville- in fact too many to recall. And I would have sworn that DSRME was involved in some of those.

This is really the only time that I have spoken out in Greenville forum negatively. Although I have thought for sometime that a few poster here are homers. But maybe I have taken it all out of context.

But forget about me and read the first few pages of this forum. It appeared without a doubt that lake was argumentative at the very least. But maybe I am the crazy one.
I've been around these forums a very long time. I've never went in and negatively attacked any city in any forum. And definitely no poster. I have defended and backed up my city with facts when it was brought up. And that's what you just experienced. Me backing up and defending the area that I work and live in. And it's in the forum for this city. You came here. No one came to you. At least I didn't. You called out "Greenville Posters inferiority complex", that includes me and anyone else that post here regularly. I'm going to respond. Some may not, but I will when I have the time to. And you called us homers. Yeah, so what. If you don't like it don't come here. We like where we live. Your own problem if you don't like it. Nothing to do with anyone here.
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Old 01-16-2024, 10:16 AM
Status: "dreaming of Glacier National Park" (set 15 days ago)
 
731 posts, read 347,229 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
Sure it is a matter of supply and demand- it always is. But these types of shops were chosen for a reason and that is to cater to the weekend tourist. Some cities in the south could emulate what Greenville has done. But most have chosen not to, and most cities are copy cat cities. Whatever works in a city is sometimes emulated by some other city. But this has not been emulated. Greenville is a different city than savannah and st Augustine. It has some tourist but mostly weekend tourist whereas Savannah and st Augustine are more tourist centers. A Disneyland downtown there seems more in tune. Greenville is an industrial and logistics center. A Disneyland downtown that is an I dutrial and logistics center does not seem right. But Greenville has done what they could do. But the city admits that this type of downtown is not enough. A consultant hired by the city told the city that they need a large and major employer and or a major university downtown. So, while the downtown is cute and draws tourists the city knows it is not enough in its current state. It is not totally functioning as the downtown that the city needs it to be. I guess this was my point. It has won awards, but it is not enough and the city knows it and is trying to rectify the problem.

But as I have said here, I think Greenville should be proud of their downtown and it has won awards. But the city knows that it needs to strive for more. And I only criticized after someone had disparaging comments. Otherwise I would have never brought it up. But this is how I feel about downtown Greenville. But I am not the only person that thinks this. I have seen comments on this before when I did not comment. Therefore, I think there is something to it. I have seen other comments that agree with me. But we all have opinions I suppose and we don’t always agree. But a city gets better by recognizing it could improve even if their downtown is award winning.
I did a Google search and didn't see anything about a consultant giving this advice to the city.

A large employer or university locating in downtown is a bad idea. They would have to build more parking garages which make a downtown uglier. The downtown is busy enough now as well as 385 during rush hour.

You probably don't know this but Clemson's MBA program is located downtown in the ONE building. I'm not aware of a university in Uptown Charlotte. The South Carolina Governor's School for the Arts & Humanities boarding school is located above Falls Park.

I don't see what the big deal is with a college if you are not a student.

Savannah has a nice downtown but it gets more tourism because it is near the beach.

Downtown Greenville has the standard stuff every downtown has, restaurants, retail, bars, corporate offices, libraries, museums, parks, churches, government buildings, condos / apartments, hotels, arena, performing arts center, etc. The main difference with other cities it is has a waterfall and a nicer park in the central business district than typical, bigger trees along the main street, and a zoo within walking distance through a series of parks. The downtown is more compact than most which makes it easier to get to the highlights. It doesn't make sense to say a conveniet setup like this is not as functional as the other downtowns you mentioned.

The big cities you mention have a ton of tall buildings which makes a downtown less appealing for many people. Greenville's downtown is an alternative to those downtowns.
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Old 01-17-2024, 03:14 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,956,856 times
Reputation: 27279
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
Greenville is an industrial and logistics center. A Disneyland downtown that is an I dutrial and logistics center does not seem right. But Greenville has done what they could do.
I guess it's too bad you weren't around in the 70s to warn Max Heller about the big mistake he was making when he put downtown on the path to revitalization that it's been on ever sense. As a result, Greenville has had to settle for the seriously flawed downtown they have now. Talk about such missed opportunities.

Quote:
It is not totally functioning as the downtown that the city needs it to be. I guess this was my point. It has won awards, but it is not enough and the city knows it and is trying to rectify the problem.
Actions have consequences and downtown Greenville is now suffering from its past missteps which were totally avoidable. Now it's scrambling to try and make up ground so that it doesn't get left even further behind compared to other downtowns in the region. It's quite unfortunate really.

Obviously I'm being sarcastic in those responses but that's how you're coming across. It's like you're seriously trying to characterize what's been an obvious and significant asset for Greenville into a liability. It's just a bit strange.

Quote:
While most good downtowns are in smaller cities in the south, let’s admit there are not too many big cities in the soiuth. And the southern cities all grew mostly after the auto became prevalent creating sprawl. But I was not comparing southern downtowns. I simply stated that the best and most functional diwntowns are in big cities- Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago, San Fran, Seattle. I don’t think anyone would argue with this. But the people in these cities are not reading the articles on accolades regarding cities. As I said, they don’t need reinforcement that their city’s downtown iis good. The magazines hope to draw readers whether on line or in actual magazines by luring readers interested in reading about an accolade regarding their city. Most of these accolades but not all, are designed to draw readers to their magazine and the data is sometimes flawed.
Big cities cast big shadows and are going to suck up a lot of air in the room even if their downtowns aren't decidedly spectacular (e.g., LA) so that's not really saying anything.

But here's what you're missing when it comes to the good press that downtowns in particular get: they reflect the on-the-ground reality and the public is aware of this. And for cities with downtowns that especially stand out, it's word-of-mouth that puts them on the map and then you see that followed up by the press.

Quote:
And I only criticized after someone had disparaging comments. Otherwise I would have never brought it up.
So why not criticize the comments themselves or the motivations such persons might have had for making the comments instead of Greenville itself? That's typically how you handle the Raleigh crowd; I've never seen you take cheap shots at Raleigh itself when you feel that Raleigh posters are being overly boosterish.

Quote:
But a city gets better by recognizing it could improve even if their downtown is award winning.
You'd have a point if Greenville leaders believed their downtown is perfect and has no need to pursue further improvements. Clearly that's not at all the case though.
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Old 01-17-2024, 03:19 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,956,856 times
Reputation: 27279
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
You must have me confused with some one else. This is the first confrontation that I have had with lake man. And you think that I have an axe to grind against Greenville because of this post. What about the posts where I have complimented Greenville? Maybe I was wrong about DSMRE. I will have to check. But I have read numerous forums regarding spats between those in the Columbia and Greenville- in fact too many to recall. And I would have sworn that DSRME was involved in some of those.

This is really the only time that I have spoken out in Greenville forum negatively. Although I have thought for sometime that a few poster here are homers. But maybe I have taken it all out of context.

But forget about me and read the first few pages of this forum. It appeared without a doubt that lake was argumentative at the very least. But maybe I am the crazy one.
I was referring to your confrontations with LakeMan45 in this particular thread as that's who you've primarily been disagreeging/contentious with. It's just better to address the person or posts you have issues with directly.
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